RIP - Page 2

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:23 pm

At least some subsection of the far right is distressed about his death and claiming it was a setup. I haven't the faintest idea why.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:33 am

Stan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:12 am John McAfee, found dead in a Spanish prison.

Does it make me a bad person that I think it's incredibly appropriate that he died in a Spanish prison? I doubt he ever participated in the Spanish Prisoner scam, but it still seems fitting.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:20 am

Akiva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:33 am
Stan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:12 am John McAfee, found dead in a Spanish prison.
Does it make me a bad person that I think it's incredibly appropriate that he died in a Spanish prison? I doubt he ever participated in the Spanish Prisoner scam, but it still seems fitting.

I hear you, and- for me- I don't want to celebrate the death of anyone. If I feel a sense of joy or schadenfreude over someone's death, I remind myself that I don't think that's okay.

But I think what you're saying is, "Hmmm. That seems about right." Which I think is totally okay.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:23 pm

Donald Rumsfeld.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:30 am

Gift of Gab passed last week

bralbovsky · Post by **bralbovsky** » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:17 pm

I'm paraphrasing someone...I don't wish anyone dead, but I must confess I read some obituaries with pleasure.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:19 pm

Mando · Post by **Mando** » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:54 am

Prince Philip died and I missed it??

Post by **Mike** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:17 am

Ron Popeil. 86.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:55 am

Dusty Hill of ZZ Top, 72.

Post by **Mike** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:58 am

Ed Asner. 91.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:56 am

Lee Perry

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:08 am

We never mentioned Rolling Stones' drummer Charlie Watts, age 80.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:53 am

General Robert E. Lee's statue, 130 years too old.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:14 am

white supremacy isn't over but we're making progress knocking down what valorizes it.

Michael K Williams passed away, a bit devastated -- he was amazing on The Wire.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:16 pm

Husband is distraught over this, he loves that guy.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:24 pm

Norm McDonald

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:36 pm

Wow. That hurts.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:23 pm

Boooooo

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:26 am

Colin Powell

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:47 am

The person who should have been president instead of various others who were.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:06 am

Hard agree. I was a big fan in my conservative teen youth. I hope he'd be known for what made him good, and also that he was probably the first black person in American history that could have been president if he wanted to (him or Oprah), and him supporting and advising Obama was hugely important for center-right people, who I disagree with but respect, mainly because I was once one, and they mostly mean well. I hope he'll be known for that over being used by neocons to pull a fast one over the UN.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:10 am

Colin Powell supported a war with no evidence, knowing there was no evidence. Thousands of people died, largely because he willingly lent his credibility to Bush and Cheney to go to war in Iraq. I never celebrate a death, but I also don't celebrate someone I don't respect just because they died.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:15 pm

Kyle wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:10 am Colin Powell supported a war with no evidence, knowing there was no evidence.

Honestly curious why people would think that, at the time, Powell himself thought there was no evidence? I've read some of these efforts to debunk his UN speech at the time as misinformation but I've never seen any persuasive evidence - indeed the evidence I've seen that supposedly proves he knew is many times weaker than the evidence he presented that was supposed to be bad evidence, like Powell's critics were not holding themselves to the same standards of evidence they expected from him at all. So if there is good evidence I would actually like to know.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:26 pm

My feeling has always been: Chalabi et al were liars who knew the evidence was false. Cheney and Rumsfeld either trusted Chalabi, he told them what they wanted to believe, or they knew it was BS but didn't care. They used Powell as a patsy.

Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, later characterized Cheney's view of Powell's mission as to "go up there and sell it, and we'll have moved forward a peg or two. Fall on your damn sword and kill yourself, and I'll be happy, too."

Claiming that he was unaware that some intelligence officials questioned the information prior to his presentation, Powell pushed for reform in the intelligence community, including the creation of a national intelligence director who would assure that "what one person knew, everyone else knew

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:12 pm

Powell said he knew the evidence was not good enough for his regular standards, but felt tremendous pressure to give his UN speech. He also said that it was one of his biggest regrets. It should be. Without that speech it was likely the war wouldn't have been the scale it was. He holds responsibility. Are there bigger, more culpable actors? Absolutely. But he also holds the blood of thousands on his hands. It's hard for me to see this 24 hours of coverage of what a saint he was.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm

Failing to live up to his own high standards, sounds a lot like America.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:05 pm

Yeah. Rah Rah. America. That doesn't mean much to over 100,000 Iraqis who were killed in a war he pushed for. A war he went to the UN and said was necessary. A war he wanted to happen. Rah Rah.

bralbovsky · Post by **bralbovsky** » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:04 pm

Powell was a model example of a "good Republican"
He seemed reasonable and measured, but harbored a deep cowardice about standing up against what he knew was wrong.

Let's say that at the time of the UN speech he believed the doctored photos were real. He had been lied to.
The day he found out, he perhaps didn't have the authority to call back the war machine, but he absolutely did have the power to find out who paid to have the evidence manufactured.
Instead, he kept his mouth shut.
He bears responsibility for every casualty of that war as if he fired the missiles or guns himself.
If he had attempted to really make reform, to hold those responsible for the fraud accountable, to exercise his considerable influence, then maybe I would give a shit that he is dead, or well intentioned.
Instead, he allowed it to occur, sugar coated it so as many as possible would swallow it, made it all seem justified and good.

All of the people in the previous administration who thought they were saving us by mitigating 45's psychosis, were really just giving it momentum.
Normalizing it, making at least parts of it ok, instead of allowing it to be crystal clear that it was evil.

That's Powell's legacy for me. He pretended Bush was competent and Cheney wasn't despicable. All while knowing he was a deep down fucking liar.
He would have been a terrible president.
He would have made very effective progress on terrible initiatives.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:00 am

Well, y'all do make a convincing case that he should have known or should have done something. I guess my problem is fundamentally, I mistrust the people he was working with and around so much more, that I find it quite believable Powell made at least decent decisions in those circumstances, was misled much of the time, and did what he could to take recourse. But I don't really know. Maybe he is just as responsible as people say and deserves the blame.

Maybe my blame assigner is flawed and distorted after adjusting to a world in which Liz Cheney has emerged as a hero of democracy, and many of that bunch of neocons from GW Bush on down have at least attempted distance from Trump. Arguably they built the very same dangerous political machine that now permits Trumpism to thrive and grow. Should I be as ready to assign responsibility to Powell for such things as I am to give it to others, recognizing that the naive hope he wasn't so bad as that is misplaced? Or was he really not as bad as that? It could be both.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 am

Kan and West

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:55 am

Eliahad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 am Kan and West

That's awesome comedy right there.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:41 pm

Kyle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:55 am
Eliahad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:41 am Kan and West
That's awesome comedy right there.

I saw the headline on NPR before I jumped on NPR... And couldn't stop myself.

Mando · Post by **Mando** » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:45 am

RIP lots of people I disagreed with who did things I didnt sanction...but I am not gonna go pissin' on their graves. bad form.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:15 pm

Peter Scolari

bralbovsky · Post by **bralbovsky** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:02 pm

Bad form notwithstanding...I've come to embrace that evil wins when good men do nothing, and anybody who isn't part of the solution is part of the problem, especially people with influence.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:44 pm

I think Powell wouldn't be surprised that we'd all be talking about his greatest failure. I think his life will be studied for a long time... but definitely no one make a statue of him.

poorpete · Post by **poorpete** » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:45 pm

Yuh oh https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/i ... 20173F.JPG

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:09 am

poorpete wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:45 pm Yuh oh https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/i ... 20173F.JPG

Ha!

I had a weird experience when I read that Peter Scolari died. As I was looking at his name in print, I thought the words, “Oh no! Rick Moranis died! Oh… wait… oh well that sucks too.”

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:41 am

Max Cleland.

I knew him a bit. He was a remarkable person.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:55 pm

Ah, how did you know him? While he was in Congress?

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:33 am

Phoebe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:55 pm Ah, how did you know him? While he was in Congress?

In a previous life, I taught at the American University Washington Semester Program. He was also there for a semester or two.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:43 am

Dean Stockwell, 85.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:08 pm

Akiva wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:33 am
Phoebe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:55 pm Ah, how did you know him? While he was in Congress?
In a previous life, I taught at the American University Washington Semester Program. He was also there for a semester or two.

Oooh, that is so cool! Not that he is passed, but that you taught in same program where he was!

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:01 pm

Stephen Sondheim

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:53 am

Bob Dole.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:29 pm

Mike Nesmith.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:38 pm

Betty White. If true (and there seems to be some confirmation), then 2021 getting one last FU in before calling it quits.

John Madden.

I'm sure there was one or two others I heard of recently that I wanted to mention, but can't recall them right now.

Akiva · Post by **Akiva** » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:40 pm

Harry Reid.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:58 pm

Bob Saget.