Johnny Depp

[Elle]

I am sad that this is the new domestic violence awareness campaign seized upon by internet feminism. Have the past few years taught us nothing?

You have two people involved in what appears to be a completely acrimonious divorce after a difficult relationship, and both have millions of dollars at stake and teams of professional publicists and attorneys whose payday also depends on those millions, and you want to dip even a toe in these waters to advance any larger cause at all? Just stop.

And please also stop saying was a drug addict. You literally know nothing about it.

[DMDarcs]

Mrs. Darcs can clarify this better than I, but from what I understand, Amber is a liar. There may be actual incidents of domestic abuse, and I'm not trying to make light of any abuse situation. From what I've heard, one of the allegations of abuse is absolutely false. There is no possibility that Johnny could have struck her and caused a specific bruise when she said he did as he was allegedly out of the country filming at that point in time. At least, I think that's what Mrs. Darcs was telling me.

[Elle]

My concern here is that just like the UVA story led to an entire victim's advocacy movement being discredited because the journalist and her editors didn't take even basic precautions needed to verify the story, now the huge and deadly serious problem of domestic violence is going to be worsened by public speculation about a case where we really know nothing. Especially because its public narrative is being dictated by publicists, lawyers, and gossip magazines, who have no commitment to truth or not harming the effort to prevent domestic violence. And that's probably going to happen even if Heard is telling the truth, which sucks; if she's lying, the internet feminist demand that we instantly believe her will be devastating.

If your friend comes over bearing bruises, you instantly believe her. You have no reason not to. Your default setting is to help. If you're a juror, your default setting is to suspend judgment until hearing all evidence. If you're listening to celebrity publicists, your default setting is that you're listening to professional expert liars on all sides. Not sure why this is hard; not sure why internet feminism demands all-or-nothing epistemic commitment. I believe in general, domestic violence is under-reported and the reporters of both sexes are subject to absurdly exaggerated suspicions and skepticism. But why should that determine judgment in any one case, especially when we know very little? If feminism demands total blind belief, that is harmful in the long run.

[Mike]

Well said, Elle.

[Elle]

So...
I have now seen a video and a really gross photo of a finger. I can't comment on the finger - no idea how or why it got that way. However, with the video, I feel like I'm a wrong, bad person inside because my honest gut response is, well, maybe he is an abuser and maybe he isn't, and we still don't really know one way or the other. Apparently I not only have to turn in my feminist card now, but any record of my ever having one shall be burnt in a ceremonial bonfire. Maybe the reason I am responding this way is precisely because I have seen people behave worse, and I've seen people behave like that who weren't otherwise physically abusive at all. So maybe my reactions to things are all screwed up and the problem is me? I feel bad if that's how it is. I'd like to know if my intuitions here are bad ones, because that video seems to completely freak everyone out and is taken as direct evidence of abuse, and I'm like, ehhh, dude needs to chill. Seriously, am I crazy? I've been around drunks who destroyed all kinds of things and hurt themselves in the process sometimes. I'm thinking my college was a haven for alcoholics, maybe grad school too. I really mean it, I feel BADLY that I'm watching something everyone looks at and says, yep, abuser! Why is that not my response too? Am I messed up or something?

[Mrs.Darcs]

I don't think giving anyone the assumption of innocence is anti-feminist, nor is trying to make evidence based decisions.

I have a lot of feelings on this, but haven't seen any videos or finger pictures. It's hard for me to be objective about someone whom I've admired for a long time, especially about how they have managed their private affairs to this point, so I need to do more research I think. Research I can't focus on right now, but from what I have read and seen thus far, I do not believe what Ms. Heard has claimed. I think that if she did indeed lie, she not only made things harder and more public for all involved in their breakup and their other relationships of all kinds, she's also made it that much harder for actual victims to be believed if and when they come forward.

[Elle]

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. I have this whole "something in the milk ain't clean" reaction - the whole thing is very uncomfortable. I've seen people make that "snap" many times and I actually don't see it here. When everyone else is saying they do see it and that you're crazy for not seeing it, that is a creepy feeling.

[El Jefe]

Whatever else may be true in this, the angle often touted around the water cooler (of Amber Heard being after the money) is clearly no longer something based in fact. It's been reported that the divorce settlement is being donated to charity.

[Mike]

So instead of being after the money for herself, she's after the money just to hurt him.

If he's done the things she's accused him of, that seems like some kind of justice.

If he's innocent, then there is a pattern of her doing whatever it takes to make him suffer.

Either way, this is a horrifying divorce.

[El Jefe]

I'll freely admit to not delving deeply into the details. From an incredibly unfamiliar outside glance, it looks to be a perfect little microcosm example of what domestic abuse victims face: you go to the cops, you have fresh bruises, you provide witness statements and other information to back it up, you file for divorce and the restraining order...you get absolutely mauled by people.

Again, that's not meant as a statement of truth on the matter. It just stood out as a textbook example of the things I witnessed folks go through when I volunteered with a few different programs over the years.