Trump

[Phoebe]

Yes, indeed. The Governor granted two people positions in a fake navy, for giggles, because he didn't know who they were, and then he took them away once he realized he didn't like those people. The real "humor" here comes with the actual job losses involved.

[Mike]

Out of curiosity, what are the rules about a university professor flipping off and screaming insults at students during a protest on campus? Does free speech reign? Are there rules about appropriate conduct towards students?

[Phoebe]

Indeed there are rules, and indeed free speech does not reign uncontrolled in such cases. I would guess people who do the sort of thing you describe could be fired or sanctioned, depending on their type of job. But based on what I have read, the truly fun part is that people who neither protested nor shouted nor gesticulated nor harassed anyone in the slightest, but merely did their jobs as they were supposed to in response, lost those actual jobs for using words that made people angry, though they were not bad words in and of themselves and broke no rule i am aware of. Maybe less well publicized cases, but important. And then, as I understand it, and you might be better acquainted with these people and their motives than I am, some Nebraska Republicans actively sought the due-process-free firing of a professor who did not shout or gesture at all, but merely stood quietly in protest and then tried to console the student whose aggressively anti-free-speech ideology she had been protesting in the first place. What a world! I suppose the important thing is that such a person not have any role in a pretend naval force.

[Mike]

In case there's a quiz later, I'm on your side.

The single report I read reported that one of these professors behaved in a manner that would be considered unprofessional. The other merely held a (not inappropriate) sign at a protest. I was wondering about the rules in such situations. I had not heard of this til you brought it up and know nothing beyond what I've told you.

[Phoebe]

Ah yes, I take an interest and am pretty sure I've read about the very case you mention. It was a grad student who did the behaviors in question. Students are usually a totally separate deal, code of conduct, FERPA that prevents discussion of it, etc. Faculty also have a code of conduct, but different procedures for violations. Other employees who definitely weren't the problem at all have no protection and thus can be and are actually fired. That bothers me... a lot. Another thing that likely bothers normal people is white supremacists. But those of us who are committed to free speech probably would have to find a way to keep up that commitment. I think the average person would be quite surprised at the proliferation of white supremacist ideology. Back in the day it was the sort of thing that people could locate on the side of moral evil without too much trouble, but you know... opinions vary in a rich fabric.

[Phoebe]

I have no problem with guns in the abstract. Hunting? Obviously something people need. I know of actual anti-gun nuts who mock this practice and it disorders my fur because that's so damn harmful to the broader cause of good. Concealed carry pistol in my purse that I got after passing many requirements? Fine, comfortable with that. However, I don't understand how people have gone so far off the rails that children are now having to protest against, essentially, Adults who are on some level comfortable with their predictable slaughter at school. Really. We know kids will in fact be slaughtered again, en masse, in school, and that's how we are choosing to live now. People who think it's because we don't pray enough are going to burn in hell if there is a hell to burn in. Trump will be there because of his efforts to make the mass slaughter of children an occasion to trumpet his innocence in unrelated matters.

[Bonefish]

First: never carry in your purse. Purses can be snatched away, and a kid could always accidentally grab your pistol and shoot you with it. It happens, tragically.

The issue with mass shootings isn't that no one wants to do anything about it. It's that there really does appear to be no solution. It does. It happens in Canada and Germany. In Norway. In the UK. Even in Australia. Oops, I guess the Australia one doesn't count because he "only" killed a couple of people before it ended. Because somehow, people will draw a distinction.

I would love for there to be a silver bullet action plan that would stop it. But... There isn't one.

And honestly, in light of the numbers of people killed? I would rather spend our energy, as smart people, to figure out how to better protect the women murdered by domestic partners. I would like to figure out a way to stop the mass death of our poor young men, black and white, who die in numbers that exceed the most recent shooting EVERY GODDAMNED DAY.

We may as well start sacrificing goats and first born to stop the mass shooters.

[FlameBlade]

[Phoebe]

I don't carry a pistol in my purse, but I am comfortable with guns for hunting and personal protection and concealed carry, etc. Things have gotten so far off the rails when someone like me is considered the enemy of the NRA, because I don't think you should be able to walk into a store and effortlessly emerge with a bunch of gigantic bazookas and as much ammo as you like. We have more trouble than that getting so many harmless things! And being smart and capable people, we can manage to focus on numerous problems and solutions at one time. It's not like we have to go down the list of all the different things that kill people or that harm people unjustly, solving only one at a time until we finally reach the point where people are concerned about children being slaughtered in their schools.

[Bonefish]

Again, assault weapons account for... 3 to 5% of firearms homicides. I don't know why they receive 100% of the focus. I can only assume that's what a "gigantic bazooka" is, because actual bazookas are fairly regulated, and even where you can buy grenade launchers, the laws for their ammunition are strict. Did you know grenade launcher are pretty much unregulated? And, well, we don't see a rash of them being used on the streets.

When you talk about firearms death, the big killer is the pistol. Not the assault weapon. And it's often a smaller Calibre pistol that can be easily and readily concealed. We have 16 year olds packing heat, and I don't think they passed a background check or acquired their pistol legally.

So. How do we combat that? How do we get young men who can't legally own their firearms, and who don't seem inclined to obey the law to stop killing each other? I don't think that answer looks like anything proposed on Move on.org.

And don't be upset that the NRA doesn't like you. They don't like me either.

[Phoebe]

I don't know what moveon.org is exactly but if it's a Liberal site then I would guess they have a hell of a lot of useful solutions about how to improve education, nutrition and hunger, domestic violence, physical and mental health issues, and other things that might have some impact on the lives of young men who have an illegal firearm. I might not agree with all those solutions but it isn't because they're not interested in trying to solve those problems, or their only approach has to do with a banning assault weapons.

Meanwhile this is not about you but Donald Trump jr. is retweeting b******* about how these kids were conspiracy actors. so I guess I'd be happy to be on the side of move on or whoever is upset about the actual killing and less interested in demonizing innocent children who have lived through a bloodbath.

I really don't give a s*** if large guns are a small percentage of the murders. Can you explain to me why I'm incapable of caring about all of the various causes of children being slaughtered for no good reason? Or why it's impossible that any solution can be pursued to a smaller problem even when the larger more complicated problem remains unsolved?

Meanwhile this week my kids, like most others and America probably, will be drilling for what they do in the event of an active shooter which is a thing they have to prepare for like tornadoes now. Never mind that tornadoes probably cause a very small percentage of School deaths.

[akiva]

[Zen]

[Bonefish]

Is this complicated? Assault weapon bans, magazine restrictions, and most other proposed "something's" that we should try, won't work. They have been proven not to work. Do we remember Columbine? Yeah. FEDERAL ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN WAS IN EFFECT. San Bernardino, Sandy Hook? Both had laws banning assault weapons, large capacity magazines, and requiring permits and registration. Norway, Germany? Stricter gun laws than America haven't stopped mass killings there.

It's not about "well, let's fix the small things first, and work on the bigger problems later". Because the proposed fixes don't work, haven't worked, and yet when that is pointed out, it seems to prompt hysterics.

Improved background checks, which have a lot of complications as the Hauze has pointed out on Facebook on his very same subject, is a good way to push forward. I can and will support that.

But if you want to tie it to turning me into a felon, I ain't buying.

[bralbovsky]

[Bonefish]

[bralbovsky]

This worry seems overblown on every level.
Who are we afraid of? Nancy Pelosi? She and her faction could take lessons from unified governance from the Italians, and still fail the quiz.

It's worth mentioning, it's not her faction that seeks to peer into your bedroom, or prevent you from marrying another adult, or wants to let your employer tell you what medication you're allowed to take. (Let's not even get in to the protracted effort to remove individual control in medical decisions.)

Any laws, IF there are laws, will be wrestled, and challenged and wrung through a torturous process (which every law should be, btw).

It's not as if gun owners can't afford competent legal representation in order to make sure the regulations are as enforceable and as porous as necessary.(the NRA has been buying senators for over a century.) Will that make them bad laws? Maybe, even if they start out as good ideas, but that's how the country dis-functions. Hopefully we'll work it out faster than we've worked on drug laws. I like the comparisons to vehicles better.

One thing I do worry about is members of the local PBA going overboard. They love laws, especially capricious ones, and bad on us for letting them have tanks.

But this fear is the same fear that made Colt and Remington what they were. They lobbied (it wasn't hard) to get the Bureau of Indian Affairs stuck in the War Department instead of the State Department where it belonged, and poof, we have a justification for a gun tradition. (Invented, btw, if probate is to be believed)

We'd get a lot farther, and get the pendulum to end up where it belongs faster, if we advocated for goals instead of stonewalling. I hope John Katko, former federal prosecutor (our local Reptile - for representative, his republican-ness is incidental) burns for selling out for a 10k donation. Being devoid of ideas in order to stall the discussion is inexcusable, and everyone who fails to at least make an attempt to get some progress on this deserves some first hand, very personal experience with a crazy guy who got what he shouldn't have been easily able to get.

Thanks, BF, for at least not being one of those stonewall guys. Bad laws get made when not everyone decides to, or gets to, participate.

[Bonefish]

My fear is that people are fundamentally lazy. And if it takes more effort to make good laws, and Les effort to just listen to the loudest voices.

Assault weapons bans are easy. The NRA has rolled over on us before. Thank God the shooter wasn't a black guy with an AR, or the world, from past experience, have been the first calling for a ban.

[Phoebe]

Well, we just disagree on whether restrictions on guns could be helpful, because I don't take it as proven in any meaningful way that they wouldn't be helpful. To me the bigger concern right now is that pro-gun people seem so incapable of dealing with the slightest restriction on guns or their purchase that solutions like having a bunch of armed teachers or armed veterans in the classroom seem like, well, solutions. Regardless of what the status of specific solutions might be, this is a pretty significant symptom of derangement over guns.

[Phoebe]

Schiff: "Some time ago, Republicans on our committee released a declassified memo that omitted and distorted key facts in order to mislead the public and impugn the integrity of the FBI."

Trump: Schiff admits he omitted and distorted the facts!!!!!!

Life in the post-truth age is grand. Just say whatever the hell you want. Up is down, down is up.