Trump

[Mike]

[poorpete]

Trying to piece together how this is not us starting a war as the belligerent. Trying to be honest and not immediately "Trump did it therefore it's bad." Also, I'd like to think the US is still looking to do what is right. Might be an exercise in futility but here we go.

Ok, first, what's Iran's commander doing in Iraq if we are not already at war with them.
- Therefore, our government should be honest that we've been fighting a war with Iran, cold and hot for the last decade. (That would also mean that we signed a successful treaty with a country we're at war with, only for Trump to throw that treaty out)

Ok, second, I don't buy this is just a political move by Trump. A "Wag the Dog" situation. I think if the military gave him this option, they knew he would be likely to say "yes' to get a win, but that's more the military wagging the presidency than the other way around.
- Military commanders should be more forthcoming with the supposed immediate need to assassinate.

Third, that this was short-sighted. I have no evidence that it's not extremely dumb and short-sighted, but maybe it's not. Maybe it's a purposeful shock-to-the-core to wake us up to the reality of the situation.

That's all I got, everything else about this, the insanity of neocons saying that Iran's oppositions parties will be emboldened to topple the government, the treating of a country's military leader as a terrorist, treating an assassination as a pre-emptive strike, is extremely BS.

On a message board complaining about a mid east war, it's inevitable every decade I guess.

[Tahlvin]

Yes, we've been in a proxy war with Iran for years, and that General was a key player.

I certainly think it's a case of some hawks in positions of power (both military and civilian), who want a hotter war with Iran, pushing the president to get what they want. And a president who lacks the chops to stand up to them (or wouldn't have put them in those positions in the first place), or lacks the foresight to understand the possible outcomes.

I certainly think Trump feels this is a chance to fire up his base and direct attention away from impeachment, but that's a side affect that he's willing and able to exploit. The fact that this option was presented to him says more about the point of view of the people he's surrounded himself with, in my opinion.

I'm curious how "all in" the military is on this. After all, how can they do this and NOT expect there to be significant blow back for US forces in theater? Why would they offer this option unless they have expectations on how it will play out? What's their angle on this?

My best friend from high school almost lost his life serving with the Marines in Iraq back in the early 2000's. His son is now old enough to fight in the same damn conflict. It would be interesting to get his take on this. I have to say, the fact that my own son is almost old enough that he could serve and fight in this same damn thing pisses me off to no end. When will this ever end?

[Mike]

[FlameBlade]

This is just a clusterfuck.

[Phoebe]

This specific action obviously could have been taken many times in the past, but the US and Israel judged it wasn't worth the fallout. Maybe that's still true, but even if the calculation had changed, maybe a nation that hadn't already badly damaged its alliances and didn't have an erratic, irrational, self-dealing narcissist in charge would be able to handle that fallout more effectively.

I do find that when real live people are leaving the airport this morning to deploy (many of whom have done so many long deployments already), it's hard for me to tolerate the absolute dipshittery of my Republican friends and relatives who literally believe Trump was sent by God to swing his dick around in the middle East. They firmly believe the solution to its complex and entrenched problems is simply to have a President more inclined towards dick-swinging than his supposedly emasculated predecessor. The same dipshittery that prevents these people from understanding, say, the medical realities of birth control is what makes them love a dumbass acting macho, and it makes me sick to think of people dying because of something so incredibly silly as that. When lives hang in the balance please God can we have some sort of intelligent decision-makers in charge?

[poorpete]

[poorpete]

I guess if the goal of the last week is to "wake Pete up" that we are at war with Iran and that our leadership has the same moral ground as terrorists who target cultural centers, I guess it's done its job.

[Phoebe]

Literally one of the things the Taliban and Islamic state did to deserve special contempt, and history is rife with other examples. Now he's telling a story about it, where "the people" - this mythical entity standing in for the actual American people, since he has only minority support - are more important than cultural artifacts belonging to the enemy, and therefore cultural artifacts generally are not important, just like all intellectual and creative products that aren't simply dear leader propaganda. To support the people one must disregard the trivialities of culture and art and religion and intellect; one must have no connection to a shared world heritage, or any other tradition that would connect us in dangerously cosmopolitan style outside the nation.

Special revolting irony that "bonesaw" himself is sending his brother to the US to "ease tensions". Don't anybody let him have power tools while he's here, or access to journalists.

[poorpete]

Nixon said
"when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal"

but more accurately in modern times:
When the president does it, it's no longer deeply unpopular.

Hence why no one wanted escalation with Iran, but he did, and now it's no longer deeply unpopular.
Hence why evangelicals thought kindness and a moral backbone was essential for a president until the president wasn't.
Hence why, i'll mix this up, hence why gay marriage was unpopular when polling minorities until Obama supported it.
The cult of the presidency is not new. I'd debate we didn't want to go into WWII until Pearl Harbor, but probably just as important, was FDR saying, "this means war."

[Phoebe]

He looked unwell today, almost like under the influence of something.

I really can't cope with the people I know who are Republican at this point. They're so f****** unhinged from reality, and so incredibly hostile and abusive about it - they still imagine, in their fantasy dreamland, that they are owning the evil libs with facts. The emperor with no clothes seemed like a facile comparison at first, but I'm stupefied at how far it goes. I don't want to be dragged down to their level by encountering that stuff, because I want to focus on reality and positive movement. But at some point I'm starting to think that won't be possible without putting some things on the line. Like I'm at the point where I basically hate a bunch of my relatives - and I don't want to hate them, and I don't want to have those kind of negative feelings towards my family members when really I just feel astonished that they're so f****** stupid. How could these people come from a starting point that was even remotely close to my beloved family and end up being such mendacious, malicious, nasty idiots? But I don't know what else to say, because everything they say makes it very clear that they hate me and people who think like me, and with each new day they seem to need to ramp it up in order to convince themselves that they're right, in the face of overwhelming evidence that their reality is crumbling apart into the illusory nonsense it really is. I don't know how you extend the olive branch or get out of this cycle of negativity with people who appear to have truly gone completely mad. It's a problem I have long struggled with intellectually: how much do you need to confront a very difficult discomfort within yourself in order to jettison false beliefs? From Socrates to Martin Luther King Jr. we've seen that kind of inner tension is sometimes necessary, but it also leads some people to lash out violently. Some people can never recover from that level of confrontation with reality and their own internal contradictions. Honestly don't know what to do about it when it comes to people I know; it's actually a lot easier when you're dealing with a person you don't know well, and you can have a more limited and polite form of interaction that allows them some escape hatches before it gets too intense.

Let me add an example that just kills me: I know a very kind woman who is a lifelong Republican. She will go to lots of personal sacrifice to make life better for other people. She's a really good person. And then sometimes she opens her mouth to talk about whatever Fox news taught her recently and it's like hearing a pod person! Or an alien has completely sucked out her brains! I can't reconcile it. I have no concept what to do with the things she says that are completely contrary to factual reality. Yesterday I just broke down and wept over it, because I don't know how to interact on that personal level with people who are caught in this affliction. It's like, no, Democrats don't actually support terrorism. You realize this, right? Democrats are normal loyal patriotic Americans who work and pay taxes and stuff, and they don't actually want to implement Sharia law anywhere. How can anyone actually believe that any of that s*** is true? I

[poorpete]

Today the Oscar noms came out and the top awards are still very white and very male. That the Academy and the film industry is very aware of their issues and continues to disappoint does not bode well for Wednesday when the Rock Hall class is announced. That industry too is well aware of its issues.

So, if to make it why I posted those two things here obvious, we're going to get to November, and people know there's serious issues with our leadership and that change is a necessity for our longterm survival. The GOP has decided it cannot change, even thought they know they are being poisoned. Will America make the needed changes, or will will 2020 a long series of disappointments?

[poorpete]

And here we are, and to add to all this the hashtag neverwarren is trending today, so, uhh, fuck the patriarchy.

[Phoebe]

It's just tragic. A total crackpot in the driver's seat; most of the passengers know it but are powerless to help because the other almost-half of the passengers are batshit crazy and wish to crash the whole vehicle as if that's a good idea. And ... one of the copilots is openly a white nationalist, while the rest just wink-wink-nudge-nudge in that direction. SICKENING.

[Phoebe]

This essay pretty much sums up my feelings:

I don't want to deal with the never-ending torrent of lying and hatred from Trump's supporters, and I'm just fighting not to respond with my own negativity. I'm making a point of being nice to these people, in hopes of then keeping open the channels of communication and change, but it feels actually WRONG to maintain that relationship, like it somehow condones the stream of hatred toward innocent people and sheer fact-averse irrationality that results in other people getting hurt or dying. So yeah, I am tired of it, tired of living among stupids and crazies and having to swallow it down without falling to their level of hostility.

[Phoebe]

The roughly 90 minute video/audio of Trump meeting with donors including Parnas and Fruman is mind-boggling. If you haven't looked into it, it's really worth a few minutes to explore the contents. Truly WEIRD. I wasn't sure how much lower my opinion of Republican Senators could get, but the fact that they know about this and have probably heard the whole thing, or could have heard the whole thing easily, and still act the way they act... Well, I find it a stain on the very idea of patriotism. I honestly don't think they can love this country and act the way they're acting right now. 100% selfish interest over the good of the nation.

[akiva]

I think for some GOP members, they're afraid of what Trump's voters would do to them. I think that's a smallish group, though. I think a lot of them actually like Trump's policies and approach--remember this is a group that has been taught to see the Democrats as sick and anti-American since the mid-80s (thanks Newt Gingrich; I think his roll in the creation of today's GOP is frequently overlooked 'cause he's been out of office for so long). Others (and I think McConnell and Graham fit here) only care about winning, and will do whatever they have to to keep power.

I had to watch part of the impeachment defense while waiting at Jiffy Lube yesterday. The unmitigated gall of the defense team to criticize the prosecution for having no witnesses with direct knowledge of the call when Trump blocked them all from testifying is just stuffing.

Also, why didn't the House subpoena the full transcript and/or recording of the call? We know from the White House that the "transcript" they released is not complete, which means parts of it were cut out. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Trump did in fact tell Zelensky that he wouldn't get the aid until he publicly announced investigations of Biden, and that part was cut before the transcript was released. Why isn't a bigger deal being made of this hidden evidence?

[Phoebe]

Welp, I'm done thinking about it. Social media is a horrorshow of mild anthropological interest, and that's all we have left. For example, the Trump supporters are riven into angry, all-caps two over their conflicting intuitions about the Superbowl halftime show. Fascinating! Like those YouTube videos, crocodile vs. python or whatever.

[Tahlvin]

I read Romney's speech saying that he'll vote to convict. If only we had more Senators like that.

I must say I have been particularly disappointed with Rand Paul's descent into deeper, deepest madness of Trumpism.

[poorpete]

Romney did something pretty courageous and lived up to why he was elected. Wish my representative had any bit of that courage, but I understand his cowardice. Romney lives up to what some thought they were getting with Trump, that Trump did not need to be president so that makes him free to do what is right over what might help him politically or financially. We know that was a crock, but Romney is walking the walk there. So good for him.

If anyone wants to be cynical and say he's just doing this to look good in the history books... YES! THAT'S WHAT WE WANT FROM PEOPLE IN CHARGE!