The Military

[akiva]

So we've seen Army cadets and Navy midshipmen flash white power signs on national TV.

Now a U.S. army unit put up a picture--with a positive caption*--of a war criminal Waffen SS officer ion its Facebook page to commemorate the Battle of the Bulge--a guy who slaughtered US POWs during that very same battle.

How white supremacist is the military?

*"The fate of his beloved nation rested on his ability to lead his men."

[Tahlvin]

There is certainly a mix, but unfortunately, the nature of military service does attract a bit of a demographic that tends to skew towards those most susceptible to the alt-right/white supremacist ethos, so it's probably a higher percentage than other national groups (e.g., Congress). And it was especially disappointing, but not particularly surprising, to see that display from members of the future officers corp.

[Kyle]

[Phoebe]

They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. My mom doesn't know the subtext. They do.

[Kyle]

[Phoebe]

It beggars belief they would deliberately pull that stunt if they didn't know, because the only reason to do it is if they DID know. It's not like they put up imitation gang signs or sexual innuendo or rock and roll for what they knew to be televised consumption. They gave us a sign you'd only sneak into frame to be a racist troll.

[Mike]

Part of the reason trolls the OK symbol to become their new hate symbol is that it was already a common, well known hand sign, and it was already being incorporated into memes as part of the punch game. It was funny to get it into a meme so you could make people look at it and then punch them. Yancey and his kid used to do that to each other all the time not three years ago. So I posit that it is possible that there are more people who know it in that context than as ersatz racist gesture. It is possible that some of this is just childish and not racist.

[Kyle]

And again- maybe you’re right. But we should make sure of that before we condemn people as white power nazis.

[Tahlvin]

For this particular incident, are we absolutely positive? No. Would we meet the legal definition of "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Probably not. Should they investigate and find out the truth? Yes. Does that make it any less valid or relevant to have a discussion about racism in the military? No.

According to , 22% of service members have seen signs of racism and white supremacy. You have Coast Guard officers being arrested for plotting domestic terrorist acts. Multiple stories of alt-right/white supremacist Facebook/social media groups of active duty military members.

It's an increasing problem for American society overall, due to a number of factors, including reallocation of resources away from investigating these sort of domestic groups in the wake of 9/11 in favor of investigating international terrorism. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bigger issue in the military than even the above survey shows, because yes, the military disproportionately attracts young, poor, white, conservative, militant males, a demographic that is the prime target audience for white supremacists.

[Ronster]

I was in and never saw the stuff. It may have been the time and location, but not a single white supremacist. I saw a lot of bigotry which is different. It's what you get when you throw a lot of different ethnicities into the mix. Some homogenize and others mix with all races.

In our Social Actions class they asked what percentage of the military was comprised of minorities. Most whites gave higher numbers, most minorities gave lower numbers. At that time 1987, they said about 15% were minorities. I am sure it has changed a lot over time.

I know this part was off topic, sorry.

[Tahlvin]

Missed , but heartily agree: The US Army should rename all of its basis that were named for Confederate generals. Why would we want to honor racist, traitor losers, anyways?

[Phoebe]

Bingo.

[Ronster]

nobody really cares about that. well maybe 3 people. I would not even bother to look into it. It is what it is. Change the name if you like, but that will just make people all defensive. Even if it is done for the right reasons it merely fans the flames of racial tension.

A better thing to do would be to rename it after a recent CMOH winner.
An Orwellian thing would be to rename the bases after Nobel Peace Prize winners and then rename the DoD into the Dept of Peace

When you are done with that, there are a lot more roadside markers and monuments, etc.

So, I will put a satirical twist on this:
I would like to see all the roadside markers about the civil war removed as they harm my self-esteem.
... and about the battlefields. The land should be returned to the families or descendants who owned them before the War of Northern Aggression.
None of the farmers (talk about poor, farmers were just that) asked for a battle to come to their homesteads.

so there is much work to be done.

[Mike]

[Phoebe]

It makes people who love the Confederacy even more angry. But the thing is, they're already as triggered as they're going to be, so might as well seize the present moment to fix some things. I may be a little stirred up on this point because we just discovered Steve King isn't returning to Congress any time soon. Even in the North we occasionally have these confused false sons of the Confederacy who don't seem to get the history of the land under their own feet. The ancestors are angry!

[FlameBlade]

Marine just ordered takedown of all confederate symbols in the military, to include flags. Possession of one subject to disciplines

[akiva]

[Phoebe]

Good.

[Tahlvin]

Have you seen the pictures of the Trump supporter welcoming Trump to Maine with a Confederate flag? The home state of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain.

[Phoebe]

People don't know, don't care, are proud not to know or care. I don't know what to do with that.