[GB] Leave Behind

[Eliahad]

Mike, I think we have to make it so that you can only leave objects behind on your turn. And if you control multiple objects and are shoved or moved you must carry one object of your choice with you.

If we say that you /can/ leave things behind when you are shoved, it makes force fumble a little less powerful.

Also, it takes that amazing moment when you were going to throw my hero, holding the Godball, into your scoring are and makes that impossible... As I could have just left the ball behind when I was thrown. Also, at what moment do I get to choose to leave the ball behind? The first hex? The second?

This isn't a major rewrite, thankfully, because it hasn't really come up in a game yet, it's just something that will come up in a game and needs to be discussed and decided.

Convince me I'm full of it!

[Mike]

I support this 100%. Even just the most basic version of shoving someone over the line would be lost.

[Eliahad]

Awww, I thought we were going to have our first tiff.

[FlameBlade]

Yep. Leave behinds only on your turn. Makes control of hex more valuable as well. Could make for unusual strategy of shoving opponents so that objects positioned better for later in the game.

Tho. If GP forces dropping of objects...hee hee.

[Eliahad]

Rules updated under "carrying an object."

Mike, we have some "you" vs. "hero" 2nd person/3rd person issues that we need to make conscious choices about. It's a flow thing, mainly. Do you think "hero" for rules and "you" for explanations? The object section is a good indicator for what I mean. It's mainly "hero" until we get to the "losing control" section where it promptly switches to "you."

We just need to be careful throughout the document. I should take a pass through the rules for that specific issue.

[Mike]

I agree with hero/god/player for rules. You for examples.

I like you better, but it can lead to ambiguity in the rules and I shy away from it as a result.

[Mike]

For the sake of simplicity, should Leave Behind simply be an aspect of Drop?

Drop: drop object to an adjacent hex or leave object behind when moving to a new hex.

Drop is an object action and can only be taken on your own turn.

Drop is also interceptable, which means leave behind would now be interceptable. I think I'm okay with that.

It occurred to me, because combining them means leave behind is now included on the hero board with drop, so we don't need to add or define another hero action, and people don't have to memorize separate rules for leave behind like it's some sort of exception or special case.

[Eliahad]

I think I understand where you're coming from. Leaving behind is, basically, dropping the ball.

Here are some of my thoughts, I don't think leave behind should be interceptable. You're not tossing the object anywhere, you're just setting it down and walking away. Which, isn't really what's happening in the game. You're dropping something as you run off to do something else, I mean, really, all of these things are happening simultaneously, right?

OH SHIT, here's how we do it.

You can drop a ball up to 1 hex away. It starts by you dropping the ball in your hex, and then moving it to the next hex. The first hex of travel, your hex, is not interceptable. The 2nd hex is.

You can choose to drop an object as you leave a hex. Or you can remain in a hex and drop the object in your hex or a nearby hex.

If we do this I want to go back to you can only control one object ever. The object you put on your base is an object you can control, the other objects in your hex you do not control. (It is free for you to drop things in your hex and control a different object, you can still switch FREELY on your turn, but at the end of the turn, whatever object is on your base is what you control. That's the object people can try and fumble. They can kick everything else.)

So, leave behind is gone, and everything else is drop. Thoughts?

[Mike]

I think that works.

Okay, new idea inspired by this: current plan is to use hero/beast stand-ups that are 1.5 inches tall with a semicircle crosspiece for the base. I need to cut some of these out and the cut an extra notch on the front part of the base (about 45 degrees up). Then we slot our controlled object into that notch so there is never any question which item you are holding.

[Mike]

And you've already written the rules so that you control (and can take object actions with) any object you share a hex with, but you can only carry one object at a time. Excellent.

[Eliahad]

Do we need to add a line that says, "if you are in a hex with multiple objects, you must choose one to carry at the end of your turn?"

[FlameBlade]

Making sure I don't miss anything. Drop should be classified as "do this only once a turn". Otherwise, nothing stopping dropping then moving (other than interception.)

[Mike]

Dave actually put that in the rules, and highlighted that if no one else is close to you, you are free to drop one object ahead of you and then carry another with you as you move, thus juggling two or more items and keeping them with you as you go.

If someone is next to you though, drop can be intercepted, so juggling becomes risky.

So far, it seems that the number of times this will even come into play are pretty limited, but we'll see what happens as we get better at the newest rules set.

[Eliahad]

Note to self: something still bugs me about the object control rules. Mainly determine what happens if SOMEONE else moves you. It's nebulous to say you control all the objects in a hex when one of those cards get played. Thinking we might want to have a distinction between controlled and carried (More than we already do). Or maybe just carried/not carried. No control.

[Eliahad]

Sorry, looking at the rules. If we change to "Carried" or "Not Carried." A couple things happen:

1) We simplify the rules. If a hero is carrying an object, it can be fumbled, but it can't be kicked.

2) A hero could kick an object that isn't carried out of the hex that another hero is in. The kick action gains more agency.

3) We allow a hero to switch freely between a objects in their hex on their turn, but they can only have one to carry at the end of their turn. If they get moved, the object carried by them goes with them, no question as to what object is getting taken.

4) We gain a bunch of inches in the rulebook because the rule is easier to write.

5) We have to make a pass through the cards to alter some text and that takes work, so this is a good reason not to do it. ha ha.

[Edit: Beasts can't carry objects. So you can just kick them out of the hex they are in, or shove the beast out of the way and they don't carry it with them automatically, no need for extra rule text on the card.

[Mike]

There's at least one card that refers to a hex with an "uncontrolled godball" where the intent is clearly that the hex has on object but no hero. That would need to be rewritten to "an unoccupied hex containing the Godball".

There will be other cases like this in the proofing. We can consider them on a case by case basis.