Giving up as we get older.

[Kyle]

Hey all! Remember when we were all much younger and loved arguing with each other? Like- it was an enjoyable activity that we engaged in? And I don't mean it in the abstract, I mean us... the people on this website... we used to do that. Whether it was on bulldrek or animalball or NPR, 15-20 years ago we enjoyed arguing politics and humanities fate and gaming rules. And now- not so much.

Why is that? Do we all just hit a malaise as we age where we realize: "Hey, I'm not changing anyone's mind and it's not like arguing is going to actually DO anything." I know I suffer from that poisonous mindset. While part of me thinks- "Yeah, but that mindset is right and that's the logical thing" part of me also is like, "That guy sounds like a depressed curmudgeon."

I'm a bit worried that when we get older, we just give up on changing the world. And I've decided that's stupid. So what can we do to combat this?

[WillyGilligan]

I was actually thinking about this a bit ago. Replied to a Facebook comment, got what I felt were some unfair things said, but by tSoche time I saw the replies, I had to go to work where I can't be on FB. By the time I could respond, enough time had passed that I couldn't justify jumping back in. So I talked myself out of bothering.

For me, it was never about changing the world, but understanding it. In 20 years I think I managed to change one raccoon furry's mind about hunters, and that's it. Every other interaction was about learning nuance, and trying to see why people think they way they do. But everything feels much more fraught now, and forums don't seem to be the go-to way to have these conversations. So now I just read the noise and try to track who's being fooled by which fake stories today.

That doesn't really help with the "how to stop it" question, but it's where I'm at.

[bralbovsky]

Get off my lawn.

[FlameBlade]

Or as simple as having a family, new stuff where we dedicate our energies to. There are a lot of stuff out there, and less reason to waste energy on fights that goes away from discourse.

[Iantha]

Part of it is intimidation. I'm not as good at organizing my thoughts in written form as some people are; 3278, Kyle, Mike, WilliGilligan, Flame, BrotherJustice, and other IRL and online friends and acquaintances are very strong writers. I find it's much easier for me to make a solid argument, have a meaningful back-and-forth, in person and in spoken form so I tend to not go into in-depth arguments online because by the time I've typed out my first point or dug up the source I wanted to refer to, I've either already lost my train of thought and start wandering or have forgotten the rest of the points I wanted to make. That may be in part due to my executive function struggles, and also in part because I've created the self-fulfilling prophecy of not being a great writer and so I don't write as much, don't get as much feed-back on my writing, and so don't practice and continue to not be a great writer.

The other part is I've heard a lot of the arguments before and I'm fairly confident in my beliefs (Not confident that I'm RIGHT, just that they fit my current situation) . Unless someone brings some new evidence or a novel way of looking at something to the table, I'm not really interested in debating. I've heard the arguments for and against abortion/gun control/social security/minimum wage/social safety nets and it comes down to this; because I believe it's the right thing to do.

[Bonefish]

I don't really have this problem. I will debate a brick wall.

On the other hand, some things have changed, especially my opinions of some people. Some have been positive changes, while others have been negative. The weird thing is that some people who I would have argued with in a heartbeat a few years ago, I now find that I don't want to argue with them. I prefer their conversation about goofy things like languages and history.

On the other hand, there are people who I once effectively worshipped, but who I have lost all respect for their behavior. So, what's the point of arguing with people who don't respect you as a person? Better to not engage them at all.

[WillyGilligan]

[Phoebe]

Still love to argue about any issue. Do it daily, just not here. Have learned my style does not translate well on internet paper; also learned this is totally normal and experienced by others like me. I was always sure that my in-person style was just fine, and for the past few years in particular I've had many occasions to have that confirmed by external comment. So... As a result I have now embraced the idea that I am perceived as a troll on the internet, and now I find it extremely amusing, and it makes me think differently about the whole concept. I care if people think that HERE because I like you people in Real Life. On the other hand, I have learned to embrace even that, with all the negative consequences that have flowed therefrom.

[DMDarcs]

I just don't have the time during any given day to follow threads to their conclusion. Everyone else seems to have a lot more time to research to back up their points, and comes across as way smarter, so for me, it just doesn't seem worth the effort to try and put my few cents in. By the time I feel ready to make my point, the conversation point I'd like to make doesn't seem appropriate any more; the conversation has moved past.