Dan Harmon's Apology

[Kyle]

http://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-mega ... t-apology/

I have mixed feelings about this. Remember that evangelical pastor who molested and sexually assaulted a girl, then "confessed" his regret to his congregation and got a standing ovation? That was a gross display.

I kind of feel the same way about Dan Harmon's apology.

A big differentiating factor here is that I believe (as his victim also does) that Harmon is sincere. In the case of the pastor, I do not think he was- as evidenced by the other pastor that then stood up and talked about how sad it was that the pastor's victim couldn't follow the same path of healing as the abuser did.

So those are two different things. But there are similarities.

And I get that Megan Ganz has accepted Harmon's apology and I think that's a good thing. Forgiveness is important and sometimes hard to come by in today's environment. And I know people will say, "If his victim has accepted his apology, then you can't really judge this, Kyle." To which I say: fuck you- I judge everything. As do you. As do we all. It's called being a human being with the ability to reason.

But the problem that I have with Harmon is that I've listened to him on his podcast for many years (and have stopped listening for the last couple). He has a habit of doing really bad things. Then he apologizes for them. Then he does more bad things- often the same bad things he did before. Then he apologizes again. I've heard it enough that I don't know really know that I care about Dan Harmon's apology. I mean, I believe that he means it. But what's that worth if he keeps repeating bad behavior?

[mimekiller]

[Mike]

I haven't listened to Harmontown recently, but on Doug Loves Movies, Dan Harmon being "required" to apologize for everything in the world was a running gag for a while. But Harmon himself was the only one making the joke. I took that attitude as way less than sincere, but I haven't delved into any of the rest of this to feel like I can judge.

[bralbovsky]

RE pastor: It absolutely counts as assault. She was underage, ok maybe in Texas it's 14 or something, but she wasn't a voting adult. He had responsibility and trust as leader of the youth ministry. He specifically took advantage of her trust. What he asked her to do was totally over the line.

This is what the recent discussion about "Me too" is about. We set up these relationships which have power dynamics, that get abused inappropriately and responsibilities (Which come with that power) which are abrogated. If people would just take the roles that they applied for and had ambition to get seriously, and didn't consider sexual contact like it was some kind of perk, we'd all be better off.

[Phoebe]

Was never really clear on what Harmon was alleged to have done. My thumbnail version is he became romantically obsessed with his employee, she turned him down, so out of spite he was a harassing jerk to her at a level of intensity that ruined not just her work life but the whole show. Close? The actionable part comes from her having been his employee (or co-worker?); otherwise sounds vaguely like normal life. Sorry for the sardonic humor, I'm really not even kidding. So normal. Also this sounds a lot like the case of that dentist or doctor, whoever it was in Iowa who became romantically obsessed with his employee and fired her at the behest of his wife and because he couldn't keep his s*** together anymore. She sued and lost which is a huge bunch of b*******.

Mime apparently smokes too much weed. I don't know what the heck is up. We went over this pretty clearly just recently. There's nothing wrong with inviting people to give you a blowjob under normal circumstances; when the girl is a teenager and you're her adult church pastor, TOTALLY WRONG and moreover this isn't even a close call or difficult case. Jesus!!! Totally wrong.

[Phoebe]

Sorry, forgot the main point. The public apologies of public figures are utterly meaningless to me. Bad ones are grimly amusing to observe as bad exemplars, and good ones are nothing because you know they could have been written by a PR person as well as anything else.

[mimekiller]

[Phoebe]

I don't think what Kyle said was at all vague or misleading. He sexually assaulted a girl. It's not just that he was older, it's that he was her goddamn PASTOR. I don't know why you feel like saying this needed clarification, that she was a teenager or that he wasn't decades older, like we need to be very sure we have attached exactly the right amount of moral disapprobation to the words in question. Heaven forbid someone was a wee bit too outraged because they mistakenly thought "girl" meant someone even younger, or that "molest" meant something other than "drove her off to a secluded place where he could compel her to do sexual things", right?

[buckett]

[buckett]

If it's the public nature of the apology that bothers people, for what it's worth, Ganz thought it especially important that a legitimate self-accounting and acceptance of responsibility be public so that others can evaluate their own conduct.

[Kyle]

[Mike]

I can back up what Kyle says. My biggest issue with him was his emotionally abusive relationship with his girlfriend (and then wife... and then ex-wife) Erin. The repeated cycles of bad behavior, therapy, epiphany, apology were disturbing, and all of it on full display.

[buckett]

[Kyle]

No- I witnessed the cycle repeat itself before this ever happened- a couple of times. So why do I need to listen now and give him another shot to determine that I think he has no credibility when it comes to his apologies?

Look- If he goes five years and isn't an enormous asshole to everyone that works with him, then I'd say you're right- there's a possibility that he's changed. I don't see him acting any differently now than I have in the past.

[buckett]

[Bonefish]

Don't you get it, it's very important that people know that we just don't care for Dan Harmon, and to know that we think he is a piece of shit, and to know that we don't care, because, he is a piece of shit.

It's not about Dan, duh, it's about US and validating our self worth, to let people know we just won't fucking stand for this kind of thing. And we need to be real vocal about it, otherwise people won't know about just how much we care. And what is the point of that.

Jeezus, it's so damn simple.

[Phoebe]

Side question here: what exactly is involved in emotional abuse? Since this guy is maybe an example of it, what kinds of things did he do that would be considered abusive that weren't actually, you know, physical abuse? I get that sexual harassment of an employee doesn't have to be physical, and there are other things you can do like intimidation and threats, but those are also illegal and so I always thought maybe emotional abuse was something else. My robot creators did not generate a recognition pattern for emotional abuse in me.

[Bonefish]

[Phoebe]

That sounds like parenting. I'm not even kidding.

I don't think I understand, for real, what this is. I know people say that it means things like being "controlling" or "critical" or "constantly critical", but it seems like you have to add on to that, the person is doing these things in a threatening way, right? Because otherwise what would be wrong with being controlling or critical, to the level that you would actually call it abuse?

I guess I don't really know what it is to be upset about this if actual physical fear is not part of it. If someone is making you terrified of them, they might not need to actually hurt you physically to do it, but you're still afraid they might snap and hurt you? I don't know if I would call that emotional abuse though. People seem to mean by it that the person is just making them feel really shitty about themselves. I guess I have just been through a lot of ... stuff in my life and feel like that's my responsibility to get it together, mentally and emotionally. Or maybe this is why I have an icy heart.

[Bonefish]