Entering Runeforge

[bralbovsky]

For reference: a giant crocodile approx 20 feet long, weighed about 2300 pounds
In captivity, big reptile

Are dinosaurs birds (therefore mammals)?
African Elephant, approximately 20 feet long, much more 3D, weighs 12000 or more pounds.
I'm guessing a big icy dragon is somewhere between the two, unless it has hollow bones. Can one carry an elephant carcass in a huge wagon? Yes, but four to six oxen are required. Beware oregon trail flashbacks.
My suggestion: make a serious, custom bag of holding. Time consuming, expensive, yes.

Maybe that airship is looking more and more practical. How many giant carcasses are we likely to collect over our careers?

[Mike]

Pat said 20,000 I think.

[Phoebe]

Can't we just skin it and take the skin? Do people need the dragon flesh as well? Maybe someone needs its heart, but for what purpose? If the only purposes are nefarious, we can just burn the corpse. I imagine Dwyn views it no differently than, like, a really big terrible bear in terms of wanting to get a bearskin and such.

[Tahlvin]

My take: let's cash in as much of the coinage and easily transportable (via handy haversack/bag of holding) goods as we can, stock up as we're able with that cash, then head into Runeforge. Leave the dragon corpse and anything so large it needs a wagon to transport it until later. It's the middle of winter and we're in the northern reaches of Varisia, are we really going to take a couple weeks (probably a month or more) to drag a dragon corpse overland? Or just maybe these Runelords have a timeline of their own that's going to dictate Bad Shit Happening (TM), and we're going to get caught out in the cold without the critical piece of equipment that's sitting in Runeforge that we need to defeat the Runelords. I'm fine taking a little pause of a few days to stock up before entering Runeforge, but I don't think it's practical to expect we get an unlimited amount of time to prepare. So let's use teleport and get what we reasonably can get cashed in, then move on and get the rest later.

[Zen]

Does a dragon take up more than 24 cubic feet? If not, Anna can cast Shrink Item (which should be in the spell book), which will decrease it's size to 1/16th of it's original size in each dimension, approximately 1/4000th of it's original volume and mass... (That is using her Arcane Reservoir to increase the Caster Level.)

Then it would fit in a bag of holding...

EDIT: That is, of course, if the corpse doesn't count as a magical item...

Edit 2: Okay, we know it can fit through a fairly narrow corridor, albeit with some scale loss, but we also know it's pretty long. But a 24 x 24 cube is 13,824 cubic feet... That seems pretty big... Oh, and if we ever get our hands on a portable hole, we need to make sure we don't mix our holes and bags... that's bad... really bad... Think crossing the streams bad...

ALRIGHT! I finally found the freaking chart!

The averages for a huge creature, in terms of length, are between 6' and 32', but that is also for an average of between 2 and 16 tons. Since we know this is a larger than average huge ancient dragon, we'll go with a larger than average length. Let's use ratios. If the large average weight is 16 tons and the large average length is 32', then that puts this one at, most likely 40' (of course, Pat could probably tell us this, but I'm feeling like playing with numbers, so screw it...) Then, we know it is 10 feet wide ish... and, it is definitely more long than tall... really it isn't a very high profile beast. SO... it would need to be taller than 34.56' to be larger than the 24 cubic foot volume for the Shrink Item spell. If that spell is not applicable because of dragon carcasses count as magic items, then we can still lighten the load when we finally transport the beast by using the spell, , which, if Shrink Item isn't going to work, I would suggest Anna look into buying a scroll of so she can add it to her book, or maybe a wand...

[Mike]

Did we level up? I thought we were 11th.

22 cubic feet means an item that is smaller than a 3 foot cube. A cube that is 3 feet per side is 27 cubic feet. So it has to be smaller than that.

Dragon does not qualify.

22 cubic feet of flesh and blood equals about 1400 pounds.

I'm guessing dragon corpse is about 320 cubic feet.

[Zen]

[Mike]

[Bluedevyl]

[Zen]

[Bluedevyl]

She can increase the DC of saves made against her spells by expending a point of her reservoir. She does not have the ability to increase her caster level.

[Zen]

[Bluedevyl]

Can we please concentrate on playing our own characters? Anna is not a blunt instrument to be used to solve a problem any way you see fit.

I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate the whole "Do this, buy this scroll, use this class ability this way" way of being told how and when I should do things.

As a practical matter, she's out of points for the day short of eating a spell to gain more.

[Zen]

[Phoebe]

Not trying to be a broken record here, but is there some reason why we cannot skin it as we would any other animal? Why do we need to haul the full bulk of its body? Are we eating it as meat?

[Tahlvin]

[Mike]

Pat has stated previously that much of the value of a dragon corpse is in using various organs and pieces as components in magic items--hide, wings, teeth, various bones, liver, heart, brain, breath weapon organ, etc.

If we combined Thor's ability to field dress an animal (survival) with my knowledge (arcana) we could probably reduce the bulk of this carcass to something like 10-25% of the mass (I'm totally guessing) without losing too much value.

I'm guessing such a task on a 10 ton animal with all this help would take us the better part of a couple days. We can take the hide off and salt it for a quick preserve that will last until we get to town. If we turn the stomach inside out, we can stuff most of the other organs in there, fill it with alcohol, and tie it off. They'll keep for a while. All this is from Yancey. He says if we even want to keep some of the meat, we can cut it thin and hang it. It'll dehydrate while we're exploring the Runeforge, and assuming no predators get to it, we have dragon jerky. Carrying meat will add to the weight, but at least it'll be dried meat which weighs way less.

All of this, though, takes time.

We're close. This feels big. Dothan's vote is that we shouldn't leave. We can take two or three days to prepare ourselves, and if Anna wants to make a teleport trip out and back for whatever, I'm okay with that, but I think we do this soon.

[bralbovsky]

The runeforge has been here, guarded, abandoned, whatever, for ten millennia. Recently, agents of Karzoug have been trying to funnel power to him for some revival. We have stopped up the particular channel that ran through Sandpoint and Magnimar.
Are there other channels elsewhere? Riddleport and surrounding perhaps? No idea. Would it be worth sniffing around? I say be thorough.

This is a little meta, but if my experience with games is worth anything, we ultimately will face a resurrected or returned or revived Karzoug regardless. The time we spend does not add to his power. His last messages to us implied that our slaughter of his minions, in fact, hastened his return, fed his strength. Someone mentioned that if his realm is Golarian, he has to return in order for us to fight him.

What this means to me is that we should take a moment here, at this clear breakpoint, to assess our capacities and adjust them. This isn't some race to the pole. (Unless, hey, we run into a parallel group of heroes shopping for supplies in some other city, but I doubt it) In the grand scheme of things, it takes so little time(Game time has such a compression effect) to prepare properly. I'd consider the days spent preparing the dragon, even fighting bandits on the road, seeing what clues or information other places have to offer, well spent in this company.

It may be that Karzoug's armies are marching, but we have been so successful so far, that I'm unaware of any other place that's under siege. I've mentioned before that I'm a little worried about Runeforge inhabitants. They, like the graffiti guy (sorry I don't remember his name)are in some stasis, were the best their factions had to offer, and doubtless will not want to make friends. They're dangerous, and they're in a concentrated space.

I suggest this: I'll ask the peacock pen (I'm sorry Darcs, please tell me its more graceful name) what the present time trajectory is for Krzoug's return, in present day months. If we have time, (I have to look up the activation recharge time) I'll also ask how we might expect to travel in and out of the Runeforge )In order to answer whether or not we're trapped in there in some magic user cage match.

If it is a dangerous as it purports (as evidenced by remains of previous adventurers for whom we should pause and say a few words) we may not be a full company when we leave. I'd hate to spend the days in haste, or miss an accident we might have prevented.

[Bluedevyl]

Its also worth noting at this point that nothing that we've seen points as the Runeforge as the resting place (or Lazarus Pit) of Karzoug. We know that there's some great magical research being performed there, but to my recollection, anyway, we've only seen references to (and my memory is hazy on this point) to Shalast or Xin as being the place where Karzoug had his previous capital.

The upshot of this, for Anna, anyway, that while we need to investigate the Runeforge with at least a little haste, its not likely that we will find Karzoug within it. There are sure to be foes aplenty, but I dont think we're even close to nearing the denouement.

[Phoebe]

Dwyn doesn't really have a horse in this race because she has a lot of money she doesn't have time even to spend, and she doesn't fully grasp why we're here in the first place besides that Dothan believes she can somehow help find a cure for Illian if we go here, and everyone seems sure that we will solve more of the mysteries that are causing these bad bad bad bad things from the ancient past to emerge into the present. Hopefully, Dwyn thinks, we will put a stop to all that soon and not have to deal with it anymore. If she can help do that, great. It seems like the whole vast region we've been traveling through is in peril from this, so it needs to stop.

On the other hand, in a meta-game way, it would be nice at some point to have "in game" time off to make things, solve things, investigate things, and so on. There are very likely manifestations of this ancient evil coming up elsewhere; we have plenty of clues after Jorgenfist to run with - even mundane things like a trip to Riddleport, or further investigation of the Sandpoint lighthouse, or returning to Fort Rannick and Turtleback Ferry, seem like worthy pursuits if our goal is to understand more about what's going on and try to repair the damage left in the wake. Dwyn shares Carbohal's desire to find and defeat Black Magga, on the assumption that it WILL attack innocent people again at some point.