Touching People at Work

[Phoebe]

A debate is going on amongst various people here. There is no point trying to remain neutral because I'm sure I've pontificated on this subject before. My position on workplace hugging and touching:

1) you should not hug people you work with unless they're originating the hugs and thus clearly want to do the hugging too. Instead, your default should be to shake hands with everyone until the hugging permissiveness is pre-established. And even then, if you are hugging someone with breasts, try to stay the fuck off their breasts. Yes, it's possible to hug that way.
2) you should not hug anyone who is junior to you (i.e. their job security or experiences depend on your decisions), regardless of whether they are the ones originating the hugs. If they try to hug you, endure passively and disengage quickly to make clear you're not into it, and don't start a programme of hugging such people in future.
3) men (or women, for that matter) should never, ever "guide" or "steer" women through doorways and such by touching or even grazing the small of their back or even the clothing upon their lower backs. The lower back is just right out as a place for any workplace touching, unless some kind of medical emergency requires it or you're in the circus together or you're trying to help someone using a walker or some other completely specific context. Otherwise, no way.

[Stan]

I prefer a middle ground between the above approach and the standards on Solaria.

[Zen]

[Stan]

[Phoebe]

If I worked with Stan I would find flimsy excuses to hug him all the time. Alas, I then would have to apply deodorant surreptitiously every few hours and chew gum even more, so it's lucky that's not happening.

[Kyle]

Prison rules apply at work. No touching. Never assume any touching, even just a shoulder pat, is okay. For many people it isn't no matter how innocent or appropriate the context. No touching.

The only exceptions are: (1) people you are fucking; or (2) people you are related to by blood.

[Mike]

[Zen]

[Phoebe]

[Kyle]

I think that people need to respect that touching is just inappropriate- not just because of potential unwanted or perceived sexual advances, but also because of sensory/tactile reasons. People with various degrees of autism can want to shut down from unwanted touching. Also- it might just freak some people out- even if everyone understands it's not a sexual advance.

No touching.

[Mike]

No touching at work. No pat on the shoulder. No touching hands, arms, or especially legs. Small of the back? How does that even enter into the discussion? NO! No no no! Bad touch.

Exceptions for me:
1. Handshakes. But I wouldn't be put off by someone expressing a preference to not shake hands.
2. Incidental hand contact when handing someone something... although that should be minimized as well.
3. Light tap on the shoulder to get someone's attention in situations where speaking would be inappropriate. But again, even this one, I'd rather just whisper to get their attention and keep my interruption/intrusion to a minimum.
4. Hugs or other contact initiated by others. But keep it brief, minimal, and professional as possible. I've had maybe two people do this to me. Both times, older women whom I've worked with for years and am on friendly terms with, and both times with them initiating it by asking, "Is it okay if I give you a hug?"

[Zen]

Exception: Retirement party when the person has worked with you for a very long time.

[Stan]

[Mike]

[WillyGilligan]

So, at work...don't do this?

Just kidding, we're all in uniform at my job. If it's not a self-aid buddy care situation or a promotion, no touchie.

[Kyle]

Let's be clear, a lot of "incidental touching"-- like the arm pat or especially the back "maneuver"-- those are douche power moves. I'm sure if you read those "player" books (about how to dominate women), they have whole chapters on these. But for a lot of guys, it's a way of showing control and dominance. Just look at how Donald Trump shakes hands.

Just more reasons it's inappropriate.

[Phoebe]

Ya, for some people though, the flirting and sexual attraction isn't really separable from the power/dominance display. That's just how they do it. I have dated all kinds; the only people I seem to find attractive are masters of the power/dominance display, which kind of sucks - my theory is that I must secretly get off on dominating this dominating type person.

And let me add something because clearly I'm having a disagreement about this with multiple real life people over here, including my spouse: people can be that way and not be thoroughly sexist or douchey. I've experienced this myself repeatedly in the workplace with people who have crazy behaviors but when the rubber hit the road, they had my back and helped me a great deal with stuff that really matters. My husband also is probably the #1 person I know for actively trying to advance women professionally, and otherwise (like insisting on women in ministry, women doctors for our kids, you name it). He mentors lots of women and has women mentors himself, and is probably the least sexist person I know when it comes to REAL shit, but he is all kinds of bad behaving animal when it comes to more superficial behaviors. As you probably know.

[El Jefe]

People should stop touching at all times, everywhere. Medical emergencies can be considered an exception.

But mostly, Stan has it right. More than one person in a room is too many people. Ideally, we should never see each other, ever again.

[Phoebe]

If I ever see you I'm going to hug you while breathing hot, humid breaths all over you, before presenting you with a giant roast beef steaming out its beefy scents on a platter, amidst a big crowd of people shouting Happy Birthday! I guess that means it's going to happen on your birthday, and there will be little birthday candles jabbed into the roast.

[El Jefe]

I am not opposed to setting people on fire as justified payback. No touching is required for such an action.