Trump

[Mike]

[Phoebe]

I will be really happy to be proven wrong on this one, hopefully, but I don't expect any apology or meaningful statement on the matter from the BSA, because I don't think enough of the people involved will insist on one, and maybe because of AT&T et al. If someone came to my non-partisan organization, hypothetically, and did the same, you can be damn sure I would have something to say about it, especially if children were involved. So I find their lack of apology disturbing. What it tells me is, I can expect people who are cool with all of this to be the majority in this organization. It's very unfair in the sense that there are people like Mike out there doing the good things, and those are the people I'd like to be with, but my guess is that, here in my sea of red neighborhood anyway, I'll have a bad experience trying to put my kid in this organization. And that's sad.

[Mike]

[Zen]

[Mike]

[Zen]

The problem with groups that try to avoid taking a political stance when someone USES them to make a political statement is, if they continue to refuse to take a position, they take the position that was assigned to them by the USER by default. Whether the BSA internally talks about this and tries to get it's leaders to deal with it in a positive ways and get the kids to realize what Trump did was wrong or not, it won't make one lick of difference to the majority of the nation who will look at them and see "Oh... the Boy Scouts are going back to being like that, I see... Well, I'm done with them!"

I've already seen posts by one of my coworkers saying she has bought her last boy scout popcorn. She sees the organization's non-statement as tacit approval, not as milquetoast, poorly worded non-partisanship. I even tried to defend the BSA on her Facebook post! (ME! And I have NEVER been a big fan of that organization, believe me! Though I was a member of an explorer troop once... We did improvisational theater. Lots of fun.)

[Phoebe]

Ron is still cool with enrolling little Jim in the Boy Scouts, so there you go. We know people in the organization who are truly stellar human beings, and that counts for a lot more to him than the current failure to respond appropriately. What Zen is saying is exactly the issue: there comes a point when a person's actions damage the purported neutrality of the group by making it seem as if the group endorses what is going on. Here we have a bunch of teenagers (or younger) being induced to behave en masse in ways the organization does not approve of, which are definitely not politically non-partisan, but nothing is said about that behavior. The result is that it appears the organization tacitly approves of its young people behaving in this way, and is hiding behind the veil of "we can't say anything because we're neutral!" That is not the ethical way, and presumably not the Boy Scout way. It would be a simple matter to reiterate that cheering on this kind of partisan insult and false innuendo is not acceptable behavior and should not happen again. They might also find the decency to point out some facts about President Obama, but I could live without it and still feel they responded appropriately.

As a practical matter, I wish Mike and his group could be the people we join up with, because I worry that either I'm handing my kid over to people who are more like Mike and the others we admire in this organization, or I'm handing them over to people who cheered this bad behavior on, and I don't know which it is. But at least we have an excuse now to ask: what did you think of that incident? Presumably any given baseball coach and team or whatever one joins could be just as bad or worse in terms of accepted behaviors, but they're not so explicitly purporting to offer character guidance. That's where it becomes a bit galling.

[Mike]

The best answer to those questions is: be involved. Most Scout packs and troops are desperate for parents who will volunteer and help out. You can be involved in small ways or large, but no matter your level, you have a say in how things run. You can EASILY effect change in your local troop just by being the person who's willing to do stuff.

At Cub Scout level, Kindergartners and 1st graders require that they have a parent (or whoever their adult is) be with them at all meetings and events. You don't have to do any of the work, but you have to be there to help your own child. At 2nd thru 5th grade, the ideal setup is a den leader plans and works with the kids on a weekly basis, and at least one other parent shows up (2-deep leadership) to assist as needed, but not every parent has to show up every time. Throughout Cub Scouts, there should be a full Pack meeting once a month, and all parents are supposed to attend those with their kids to get info on upcoming events and provide input, etc. On top of all that, there's all sorts of things you can do to help. Be a member of the Pack Committee and meet with the Cubmaster every couple months to help make the big decisions on what big activities you want to plan, how much the Pack can afford to pay towards events for each Scout/family, fundraiser stuff, that kind of thing. It's a steering committee. Or you can be the Popcorn Colonel (haha), the person in charge of coordinating the popcorn sales stuff. Or be on the planning committee for the once a year Blue & Gold ceremony. Or volunteer to be a driver for events. Be the person who's willing to go to events and camps as an extra set of eyes and hands. Honestly, if you're worried about setting the direction of the Pack, getting on that Pack steering committee is as easy as asking.

Having said all that, some Packs are set in their ways. People in Scouting are just as varied and potentially infuriating as every other facet of life. Sometimes, you just know this group isn't for you. For the first two or three years of Cub Scouts, your kid is never without you there to help him and watch out for his interests. And if this is going to be a group that you feel you will never see eye to eye with... if you are convinced that you will not be able to make this a workable situation... then you can leave long before you get to the point of leaving him in anyone else's care.

[poorpete]

Aside, this reminds me of how it was (and somewhat still is) to be a liberal Catholic. There were ones like me that high-tailed it (with help from wife) to the Episcopal Church, while others who stayed and encouraged others to stay. Thankfully enough stayed and had a voice that they have a more welcoming-to-almost-all Pope and Obama-style slow-but-forward-moving reforms (aside aside, fuck Trump and his actively-backwards-moving anti-trans decision).

Not sure if I'd have my son be a boy scout, yet. You are all making great points.

[Zen]

While it is several days late and, still, several dollars short of truly addressing the depth of the problem with the nature of what was done by Trump at the National Jamboree, the BSA has with something like a tone of disapproval for Trump's speech.

They apologize for the fact that political rhetoric was inserted into the Jamboree. They do not apologize for the fact that they allowed this idiot to continue speaking when he was using curse words and encouraging the young boys in attendance to do shameful things like booing a former president of the United States. But it is at least an apology for the fact that it happened.

[Mike]

[Zen]

[Mike]

There's no stopping him in any context. How many times have we heard reports of the people closest to him trying to get him to shut up or stop tweeting or stay on script? The only silver lining is that he tends to incriminate himself a lot, because he has no idea that he is capable of being wrong or that he may one day have to answer for his actions. Hopefully, he turns out to be wrong on both counts. Eventually.

[Phoebe]

My grandmother used to be the den mother. Thus volunteering with a group appeals to me, but I don't think I'll have time to do anything like that. The real problem is that selling Girl Scout cookies is awesome because if you can't sell as many as you think you can, you end up with a house full of Girl Scout cookies. If somehow this is overwhelming to you or your medical wisdom, there are about a million occasions to bring people a box of cookies as a gift and everybody loves them. The Boy Scouts... it's not going to be like that. No cookies.

[Mike]

A) Yes. That should be the deciding factor in a decision like this.

B) That's why I want the two groups to merge and just become... Scouts. We need that sweet, sweet cookie money.

[DMDarcs]

[Phoebe]

4-H is the answer but they have nothing except a few cookbooks and the county extension service. Wait, what am I saying? The County Extension Service is like my favorite thing ever!!!!

[Zen]

It's official, , according to a couple of .

[Mike]

I miss him already.

I mean, how can you hate a cartoon character, right?

[poorpete]

The WH is not in chaos. Starting..... now!