Trump

[Phoebe]

Most Trump voters do not believe DJT Jr met with the Russians he has personally, in writing, expressly admitted to having met, and that President Trump admits he met.

W T F

I encountered one of these randomly in a conversation. It is like the proverbial brick wall. The claim is, the lying media lies, so even if they report something Trump admits, if it's disfavorable, they're lying about his admission. If you show them the actual mouth speaking the words, then it was misinterpreted somehow or doesn't really matter. Like his mockery of McCain once - oh, he didn't really mean it. No biggie.

So buckle in, y'all, because this 30% of the electorate is going to read Mueller's results as a false, partisan, direct personal affront. What happens then? Republican Congress has shown itself unwilling to step up. Not sure anything beyond the proverbial 5th Ave shooting will do it, and even then... We are all fucked because of this. If that 30% had not gone insane, the GOP in Congress would act right. This enables them. But since a few of the Republican Senators live in blue States or serve constituents that won't punish them for this, maybe the least bad outcome is what we just saw with health insurance, and they prevent the rest from getting anything done. What kills me is, the 70% who retain a grip on reality are inexplicably unmotivated to vote on that basis.

[Mike]

I thought it was 30% of Trump voters, which would make it about one-seventh of the electorate. Still a grotesque number for sure though.

And I could be misremembering.

[poorpete]

[Puzzle] Cruz 2020

Ted Cruz wants to be the GOP nominee in 2020.
He needs Trump to be ousted, so he can compete against a weak Pence.
He needs Trump voters to support for him, otherwise he'd not have a big enough coalition to win.

Cruz votes for impeachment and Trump stays: betrayal! He loses the Trump voters.
Cruz votes for impeachment and Trump is ousted: betrayal: he loses the Trump voters.
Cruz votes against impeachment and Trump stays: he loses Trump voters to Trump's reelection.
Cruz votes against impeachment and Trump is ousted: the Trump voters are his!

Trouble with the last one is Cruz's clout. Let's say there are 15 senators and 30 house members who will vote however Cruz does.

Aside, why isn't there a vomit emoji?

[Zen]

[Stan]

[Phoebe]

We get to see it with Turkey.

[mimekiller]

This russia stuff is a dead end believe me, if democrats are still banging that drum in 2020 it will be a fantastic way to give Trump 4 more years.

[salvation122]

[FlameBlade]

[Stan]

My guess is that investigators are being very careful in collecting and verifying everything. We're talking about treason level charges against top level figures. That's not something to be quick and sloppy about.

[Zen]

In addition, from the sounds of things, Mueller is looking into the money trail and following it wherever it may lead, which is what lead Trump to threaten to fire him if his investigation extends to things outside of the Russia issue. He's scared that Mueller will uncover things that are actually illegal.

As one commentator pointed out after the interview in which Trump both threatened to fire Mueller and stated that he wouldn't have picked Sessions as AG if he had known he would recuse himself: It wasn't Watergate that took down Spiro T. Agnew (though for all we know he may well have been involved in it... But he was gone long before it came to light), it was income tax evasion. Who has been entirely NON-transparent about his tax returns this entire time?

And what about that statement about Sessions? Doesn't that just REEK of corruption? How can a sitting President SAY that they wouldn't have appointed someone to be Attorney General of the United States if he knew that that person would have the integrity to recuse himself from investigations into events that he was PERSONALLY involved in that took place prior to his taking office and NOT be considered corrupt? He's basically saying" "He should cover my sorry a$$! That's why I put him there!"

[FlameBlade]

The. Hell. Was. That. Speech. To. Boy. Scouts?

[Zen]

[Phoebe]

With apologies to Mike and others, that right there was the end of Jim joining a troop.

And speaking of troops, when the President orders the troops to act as his personal political agents and they cheer him on instead of obeying their oath to defend the Constitution, well, we have a name for that, a millenia-old name.

[poorpete]

USA: Obamacare's not great.
GOP: Hear you loud and clear, less healthcare it is!
USA: I'm slowly getting used to trans rights
GOP: Hear you loud and clear, we'll humiliate them at every turn!

[Mike]

[Mike]

Addendum: This whole incident was nothing more than Trump doing exactly what he's always done. No matter where he is--no matter who the audience--Trump stands up and delivers a stump speech. And it's the same sort of bullshit every time he does it. He did this to a gathering of CIA employees in front of their memorial wall. He did it to a group of uniformed military personnel at the commissioning of a new aircraft carrier, imploring them to lobby Congress to support his agenda. He's launched attacks on Obama, Clinton, the press, and the Senate, and issued threats against his own employees at public appearances with foreign heads of state. The fact that this time happened to be for a group of children makes it more egregious, but it is still exactly what he does everywhere he goes. He is a bad man and the blame for all of these events is squarely on him and those who continue to support him.

[Mike]

And a discussion of the BSA's official position on being involved in politics:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/ ... l-rallies/

[Zen]

Mike - Do you have a link to the BSA response to Trump's speech? I'd like to read it. I specifically would like to know what they said about his use of profanity, mild as it may have been, and his enticing their members to jeer a former president of the United States. I would think they would express, at least, disappointment in him for doing such inappropriate things that are not in the spirit of their organization.

On another note, Trump's whole "Look at the size of this crowd? I'll bet the media will say it's only about 200 people." or whatever it was shtick was so bizarre in this context. Why on EARTH would he even go there with something like a Boy Scout National Jamboree? It's not like they were gathered to hear HIM, he was there for THEM. The concept that the media would under-report the size of the crowd is, frankly, paranoia gone out of control. Did he think that those teenage boys had traveled from around the country only to hear him speak and then were just going home?

[Stan]