Trump

[Phoebe]

Have you seen the photo of Pence touching the do not touch equipment? I assumed it was fake. Nope, real. This is the level we are entrusted to now.

[FlameBlade]

Republic of China. How to insult China in no time.

[Phoebe]

Neat how we never know whether it's a deliberate insult or an accident born of incompetence joined with lack of concern.

[akiva]

Apparently Melania interrupted the meeting between Trump and Putin, and tried to end it because it was taking too long. That seems like she's a spoiled brat who only cares that she gets what she wants. Or maybe she was worried that after an hour Donald would be too tired, and Putin would take advantage of that.

(In case you hadn't heard, on at least 2 occasions Trump staffers blamed Trump's stupid and/or asinine behavior on his being tired).

[FlameBlade]

Watch Trump's body language towards Putin. Compare to other leaders. Very unsettling.

[akiva]

Several U.S. people in the room for the meeting have refused to say that Putin's version of the meeting is wrong.

[Phoebe]

But let's be sure to hand all our names and addresses and party affiliations and voting histories and SSNs to these jokers!

[poorpete]

So, we can now say with confidence:

Trump's campaign was actively seeking damaging Clinton information from at least one Russian source. Closest we've gotten to confirmed collusion. Fun!

Fun?

[Kyle]

I heard someone talk about his on CBS this morning and they put it this way: "I don't know that this meeting was collusion. But it certainly shows that the Trump Campaign was willing to collude with the Russians."

[poorpete]

At this point it feels like.... "am I touching this piece of paper proving everything or am I just feeling the air molecules between my fingertips and the paper?"

[Cazmonster]

I know this isn't how it works. I get it.

But I want to see Junior and Kushner get cuffed by Secret Service officers and handed over to somebody. Like cuffed in the Rose Garden.

[akiva]

[poorpete]

In the 90s I was on team GOP. I say team, because I switched teams in college (haha, in a political sense), and a lot that I fussed about was team sports shit. I'm glad, looking back that Bill Clinton wasn't impeached, and although I still dunno if I like him, I sure like many of his policies (I like his current political leanings more).

Anyhow, the impeachment proceedings drove me up the wall. How can, just a year before, like 70% of americans (including Hillary Clinton) said if Bill Clinton had the affair, he should be impeached/ need to resign, but then we find out he did have the affair, and everyone changed their minds, and were fine with him staying. Plus he lied under oath, no president ever committed perjury in office. Drove me up the wall how it became GOP vs. DEM. That said, again, it was all looking back.

I feel this is different, a huge difference, a bigger crime by a bigger doofus, but worry the same lines are being drawn. Ryan saying he can't deal with hypotheticals about whether he'd ever try to conspire with Russians, is intensely worrying. McConnell waiting for Mueller's findings is a little less worrying.

[Phoebe]

[Mike]

They are convinced that voting Republican IS in their best interest. Refer to everything you just said about alternate perceptions of reality. They have a reality in which GOP policies really will solve all their problems, and in any case, wherever they still have a problem, it is the fault of obstructionist Dems (even when Republicans hold the vast majority of the cards in play).

[Phoebe]

I believe you, I'm just mystified as to how it happens. It's not like any of this is mysterious or subtle. Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan and Donald Trump are only the latest in a long line of people who want to take your money and give it to a very small number of very rich people.

On the other hand, remember that test where you say, okay, you can make some stable, large amount of money (let's call it 100k per year), or you can choose to flip a coin that gives you a 50/50 chance of making 30k per year or 3 million per year? And almost everyone chooses not to flip, except the very poor (nothing to lose, no comparison basis) and the very rich (know damn well what's at stake). There's a psychological relationship here. People might need to suffer more before grasping how fucked they are. The upper middle class needs to get their minds wrapped firmly around nursing home costs and the way that it will bankrupt whatever wee golden nugget they manage to hoard in life, freezing every warm feeling they have about being ants among grasshoppers.

[poorpete]

Thought/fear:

In 2004, for some reason, GOP voters decided maybe torture was a good thing.
In 2016, for some reason, GOP voters decided experience, a big criticism of Obama, was no longer necessary.
Will in 2017, for some reason, GOP voters decide it's okay to commit treason sometimes?

[Phoebe]

I think it's more like they will so radically redefine it as to make sure nothing they want to do to win elections counts. If they need to go get help from another Tyrant to get elected so be it! People who don't really care about democracy will see nothing wrong with this at all.

[WillyGilligan]

[Phoebe]

Antifa and "check your privilege" differ from the "war on Christmas" only insofar as they aren't actual made-up fantasies, but the negative effects they have on people's lives are roughly equivalent. Pretty sure "BLM riots" are a made up fantasy too. And then, when you compare something like "problems caused by BLM protest movement" to "unnecessary shootings and killings of innocent black citizens", Oh My God is that comparison offensive. I don't mean you're offensive for bringing it up; I mean conservatives or Republicans who spout or believe in that kind of false equivalency are morally offensive. I get that calling other people bad citizens is not exactly healing the rift or encouraging them to behave less badly, but to be totally frank, most Republicans who are comfortable with what's going on in their party right now are bad citizens. They actively desire to harm their fellow citizens in many different ways (and much of the time, themselves without knowing it), they want to take away people's legal franchise in order to win elections, which automatically makes them bad citizens, and they are morally okay with the recent attempt to undermine our democratic elections with whatever crap just happened that we don't even understand fully yet, nor do they support taking active measures to prevent it happening again. This is a serious problem, you know? I have absolutely zero hope that these people will somehow get over their mental issues; the only hope is for the 58% of people who are seriously displeased with how things are going to stand up and actually vote, and their votes to be counted. That isn't happening, so that's why this total bullshit is allowed to run rampant. Until the sane 58% get it together enough to be politically dominant, they can expect to be robbed of their money and useful public institutions and have their leadership in cahoots of some undefined sort with Putin.