Trump

[akiva]

[Eliahad]

I'm also getting hung up on the, "It's okay when we torture people, because we're good at it."

[Mike]

Master, you gotta trust me on this. Trump has been using racist rhetoric (both open and coded) to rally support. There is nothing 'alleged' about it. And like Rush Limbaugh and others, he consistently falls back "it's not racist in context" and "the actual words aren't 'technically' racist." But that's all just justifications for behavior that intentionally plays on racist sentiment. You don't have to come right out and say, "I hate black people," to be a racist and profit from racism. In the modern world, racism is still very real, it's just more subtle, because everyone knows you can't just announce your racism.

I know lots of racists. Lots. And every single one of them is absolutely convinced that they don't have a racist bone in their body. Every one of them. And yet, they are.

If you want to examine Trump's sexism, it's just as bad.

[TheMaster]

I guess it is just a matter of opinion. I have not heard everything that he has ever said, but nothing immediately have heard him say has been racist. I really don't care if he's racist. I'm not voting for someone I would let my daughter date (if I had one) I'm voting for someone that I think will put our country back were it needs to be. he can be racist or sexist, it doesn't really matter. he won't be passing any sexist or racist laws, so who cares? well obviously lots of people, but I'm not one of them. Again I don't think he is either, but I couldn't care less if he was

[Mike]

Except that he has specifically mentioned numerous policies that he wishes to enact that are specifically designed to appeal to racist inclinations.

[Mike]

Also, you can't demand evidence and then, when provided with evidence, claim it's just a matter of opinion. That's disingenuous.

You can't reduce disagreement on facts to being merely matters of opinion. That's a lie perpetuated by the media, because it's exciting to present different sides of an argument as if everyone's opinions had equal weight. They don't. Some people's opinions are backed up with facts and reasoning. Some are less so. Certainly, there can be honest differences of opinion over what may or may not be racist, but the overwhelming level of evidence and expert opinion says that Trump is either racist, or else he is willing to traffic in rhetoric in an effort to appeal to racists. Either possibility makes him a man that should not be president.

When he talks about building a wall and making the Mexicans pay for it... that's racist. Illegal immigration is at its lowest point in a long time. The total illegal population in this country peaked almost a decade ago, and since then, due more to the recession than anything else, the illegal population in this country actually DECLINED. They're not even coming over in big enough numbers to replace the ones who die or leave. With illegal immigration down, there's less need for a wall than ever, but Trump keeps agitating for it. Why? Scapegoats. He wants angry voters to have a target for their dissatisfaction. The wall is not effective or affordable or sustainable. It makes no sense on any level except racist ones. When he talks about Mexicans, even while explaining how much he likes them, he always paints them as "other", even legal ones. Even US citizens. His words emphasize the fact that Hispanics aren't like us. Not like " real" Americans. His words set them apart and make them into something different from Americans.

Same with Muslims. He talks about keeping out the refugees, but then expands that into referring to all Muslims and keeping an eye on American mosques and oh hey, Japanese internment camps were probably a good thing in context, and not the racist national shame we've considered it to be for the last 60 years. He's talking about illegal spying by the government of U.S. citizens, in direct violation of their Constitutional rights based on nothing more than their race and/or religion. That is racist and illegal, and not in any way a matter of opinion.

The bit where he said he knew nothing about David Duke or white supremacists was proven to be a lie when people found earlier quotes from him referring to Duke by name. He lied about it. And what that means is that he okay with open racist David Duke, OR he was willing to lie in order to let people THINK he might okay with open racist David Duke in order to get votes from racists.

[Eliahad]

Thank you, Mike, for articulating things in a way that I couldn't.

[Bluedevyl]

I really struggle with the idea that someone who has said the things he has will "put our country back where it needs to be".

The man is a racist, sexist, arrogant fascist. Nothing about that should guide our country anywhere at any time.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But, as Mike said very well, you can't ask someone for proof of a point, and then claim its their opinion. Facts AREN'T opinions. One of the issues with political palaver these days is the apparent belief that if you say something loud enough, it will become true by virtue of the fact that you can't hear anyone else. This is ostensibly how his entire campaign has been run from start to finish.

The last time a person like him was in charge of a country, 20 million people died. How can that possibly be a good idea?

I realise that I keep calling him a fascist, and perhaps that seems extreme, but read the following definition:

"a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion"

That's not a Republican candidate's platform, but it certainly is the platform Donald has been yelling from.

[Cazmonster]

[akiva]

[salvation122]

[Elle]

[Ronster]

So much Kool-aid so little time

[bralbovsky]

There are structural problems in this country that were created at the very beginning by people who wanted to hold on to their turf, and who engineered disunity among everyone they felt deserved only the scraps. It's in the laws of Virginia before there was a Virginia.
So we're not going to unravel centuries old behaviors in one or two administrations.
I do object to Tumplestilskin's demagoguery. It's toxic and distracting, and promises to lead places nobody really wants to go, and if only the Republican party wouldn't play the role of Hindenberg, instead of standing up for - jesus, freaking anything - we might not be in this mess.

What I object to more, is his pathological dishonesty. As the quintessential free-rider (and proud of it) he condemns free-riders. As a fan and master practitioner of graft, he pretends to be above it. Ya, I know, I know, "How do you know a politician is lying?...." but what that means is that he has no principles; he's chaotic evil. (Most of them are lawful evil, #hillary)
This would normally not be a problem, except...president. Bad stability is better than neutral chaos. Whatever you want to say about Obama, he's very predictable. One issue I have with sitting Republicans is that they're so incompetent that he takes them by surprise once a week, and then they complain about how that's his fault and not theirs (fool me once...).

Nobody knows what decisions he would make (he probably doesn't even know - whatever he's saying, he's saying to trend on twitter and not because he understands cause and effect) and whether it's fanatical judges for the Supreme Court, or military decisions in Eastern Europe, mistakes are costly in larger terms than Daddy's fortune. There's a Heinlen short story I keep coming back to "A Sound of Thunder," and we're in it.

[Elle]

[Elle]

And when he's caught, .

Today he calls Bill Clinton a rapist for political gain; yesterday he was pleased to have Bill Clinton at his wedding and dancing with his own wife. I know that's what i always do when I believe someone is a rapist. It's all sheer bullshit.

[Elle]

So basically, who the hell knows:

"On Sunday, during a call-in interview with Fox News’ “Fox & Friends,” the billionaire businessman said he didn't want to "have guns in classrooms."

“Although, in some cases, teachers should have guns in classrooms. Things that are going on in our schools are unbelievable. You look at some of our schools, unbelievable what’s going on. But I’m not advocating guns in classrooms," he added.

“But remember, in some cases – and a lot of people have made this case – teachers should be able to have guns,” Trump continued. “Trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.”

[Elle]

Oh and he thinks. So not only does he invite a person he considers a rapist to his wedding and permits him to dance with his wife, but he also would do this with a pair (?) of people he considers murderers!

Or, what is more likely, Trump will say anything whatsoever that he thinks increases his chances of being elected regardless of its relationship to the truth. Long gone is the pretense that even political promises ought to have some kind of slim thread connecting them to reality. In this new world it is acceptable to simply fabricate whatever insane thing you feel like saying if you think it will be helpful politically, even if it is demonstrably obvious that you yourself never believed the thing you are saying.

There are two major reasons to elect someone as president. Either you think that this person's policies and plans are the right sort of thing to be done, or you think that the person has the right sort of character and leadership that you trust whatever decisions made will be decent ones. In this case nobody can even tell what the heck this man plans to do because he says absolutely contradictory things about what he believes in or wants to see happen. And I don't see how anyone could think that he has the character or temperament or ability to accomplish any of the serious tasks he would have to perform for us in this role. He is such a liar that every single day he comes up with new Whoppers to top the previous ones. It absolutely blows my mind that this is really happening.

I can see just how easy it would be for him to win and it scares me. Nobody thought that George W Bush was going to win that first time. And people were even more shocked that after 4 years of him the voters elected him to a second term. I think he really did damage to our country, particularly with Iraq invaded on a false pretense, by making us known for torturing enemies that we capture, and moving us backward on protection for the environment and slowing climate change. One of the other things he did that Obama has continued to do is consolidate power in the office of the presidency. So when we have a president Trump he will be able to do even more scary things than he would have been able to do a few decades ago. I am not kidding folks, this is really scary. And there are people who will want to vote for him simply because people who are progressives or Bernie Sanders supporters like me find the prospect of this presidency scary. They enjoy doing things like that for spite more than they enjoy any kind of serious consideration of what would be good for the nation as a whole. At this point I would be absolutely delighted to vote for Romney and I would do it tomorrow if it would guarantee that there is no Trump for president.

[Elle]

Lord God help us all, I did not realize he was literally a snake oil salesman.

"Through a multi-level marketing project called The Trump Network, the business mogul encouraged people to take an expensive urine test, which would then be used to personally “tailor” a pricey monthly concoction of vitamins".

Really, people. I am praying to God at this point because I'm not sure what might happen. I really like our constitutional system - I really like it a lot and believe in it with all my heart and mind. I'm scared that this is the end of democracy as I have known it through my lifetime. It's not like he's the first candidate who was ever dishonest or tried to manipulate the process toward his own ends. It's that he's the only one to my knowledge who has been completely exclusively focused on his own personal gain and willing to tell any lies whatsoever to accomplish it. Seriously think about what it means to give that kind of person such unfettered access to power.

[Mike]

A terrorist attack on American soil within 60 days of the election could put him over the top.