Trump

[El Jefe]

For all the rage in one of my other recent posts, I've had some pretty good discussions with some MAGA supporters lately. Two great topics I've found to bridge the gap: the impact of ACA repeal without an alternative plan waiting in the wings for deployment, and the impact of potential increased tariffs on goods to support the wall project. They are both topics that really track well with those involved in smaller or regional businesses. The marketplaces did allow for some (some, and not nearly enough) employers to provide better/any insurance for employees, particularly those that have been with them for a long time. Additionally, for those dealing with parts or supplies shipped in from Mexico (more than may expect), they're often very aware of the impact increased tariffs can have on their bottom line. Whether or not they need to pass the cost onto the customers, it's still going to cut into the profit margin.

I've had two ongoing discussions with friends of friends who identify as strict constitutionalists. The reliance on executive orders can be a good starting point there. Particularly if you were someone who was vocal about the over-reliance of the previous two administrations on executive orders.

[Phoebe]

I'm impressed. I can have that kind of constructive conversation with normal conservatives but not gung ho Trump people. It causes actual family conflict in some cases.

[Stan]

These articles have some numbers on the extremists that we need to be worried about:

[bralbovsky]

I've had some luck, but only with those who can actually do math.

[Cazmonster]

[Phoebe]

OH if anyone for some strange reason hasn't yet seen this clip, it's an instant classic. She nails this on a level comparable to, like, Voltaire and Swift. My favorite is all the stuff about YOUR WORDS. LOL, dying. And the look on the one guy's face afterward. It's the look on every person's face when they watch the real life version.

[Phoebe]

HOLY SHIT PEOPLE, if I am understanding this correctly, what is being reported all over this morning, TRUMP EITHER DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS APPOINTING BANNON TO THE NSC AND REMOVING THE HEADS OF MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE OR DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT ACTION AND NOW REGRETS IT.

ALSO HOLY SHIT NUMBER TWO AND YES TWO THINGS IN THE MORNING NEWS HAVE CAUSED ME TO CHOKE ON MY COFFEE AND REQUIRE ALL CAPS:

BETSY DEVOS' BROTHER IS THE HEAD OF BLACKWATER THE DEFENSE COMPANY THAT WAS INVOLVED IN ALL THAT JAZZ IN IRAQ REMEMBER LIKE SHOOTING UP THE CIVILIANS WHEEEE????

Now I understand why Betsy DeVos. I understand why she can't be defeated. I understand why I should probably delete everything I've ever said about her on the internets so when Steve Bannon's private military comes to silence me, they don't bother. LISTEN BLACKWATER PEOPLE AND NAZIS: here's what you need to know, I am the single least effective communicator on earth. I am complaining here to an audience of 7 or 10 on a good day, I am not the revolution you need to stamp out. OR AT LEAST SPARE MY CHILDREN.

[Stan]

One possibility is that Trump is out of his league and that Bannon and a couple of others have been taking advantage of the situation to rapidly push through their agenda. Trump was apparently not entirely aware that he put Bannon on the National Security Council. Apparently, Trump has not been entirely in the loop in drafting executive orders up until now but intends to be in the future.

I hope that's the case because that would mean that what we've seen so far may not be how it is for the next 4 years. People could get fired, Trump could learn more about what he's doing. There's signs that others are trying to do things that aren't Trump's idea, such as his opinion to keep Obama's LGBT protections despite the appearance of a draft an order that says otherwise. Though he's obviously still big on a wall.

source:

[Phoebe]

I agree - it sounds like people are churning out possible EOs and legislation like crazy and not everyone in the inner sanctum agrees. It's a really freaking sad day when you're praying that Ivanka and Jared disagree with whatever the nazi-wing or fundamentalist-wing is cooking up, or when you're relying on Reince freaking Preibus to save you from the white nationalist agenda by vanquishing his enemies at the round table.

[Bonefish]

Trump is looking supiciously like Hindenberg, and Bannon is looking like. You know. Which means I guess Spicer is Goebbels, though Milo could be Goebbels. Still need a KDP and Rotfront to stir up violence with the hooligans so you can approve "special emergency powers" that will never be rescinded.

[Tahlvin]

I'm with Dan Carlin on this bit: comparisons to Weimar Republic German aren't good comparisons. It was a system enforced on Germany by it's WWI conquerors that was in place for about 14 years when Hitler came along. A better comparison to the current situation would be the Roman Republic.

[Tahlvin]

[Mike]

I learned it when I heard it from this thread.

[Phoebe]

Any negative poll is fake, the media is not only lying but fully fabricating some things and ignoring others, because apparently their motive is to help our enemies, and judges are also fake authorities who betray the nation and its law enforcement. Any attacks are the judiciary's fault now. So when martial law happens in response to any problem (with assistance from the private militaries? after all, career officers, joint chiefs might betray us by following the law, so we needed to get them off the security council) now we know why. We have been fully forewarned. We knew before the election too, but now we really know this is not a drill. This was all necessary to save the unborn though.

[Bluedevyl]

I still caution people about comparisons to Hitler. They are too easy, too inaccurate, and don't really advance the conversation. You can't engage someone in meaningful dialogue across the aisle if your default is to call the President and his entourage Nazis.

I think a much closer analogue to what we are seeing right now is Juan Peron, not late 1920s Germany.

[Mike]

Try this one:

Born rich. Never had to work for anything his whole life. Elected president under accusations that he was supported by the Russians who maybe helped him win. People are afraid he may be beholden to foreign interests. Immediately surrounded himself with friends and family, appointing them to high government positions. Everyone worried that he is not experienced enough to be the most powerful man in the world and worried about someone in his position having control of nuclear weaponry.

That's right... JFK.

[poorpete]

Ha!

No political experience, every action sets a potentially dangerous precident, could be a dictator if he wanted to, Britain hates him, surrounds himself with white supremacists, is one himself.

That's right, George Washington.

[Bonefish]

While I understand the real problems of "trump is literally hitler", the replies that this parallels the end of the Roman Republic, or Pedron in argentina is exactly the point: While trump may not litteraly be hitler, he is an authoritarian, and his close aides are nationalists. And the country as a whole has taken a rightward shift. Not just in electing rebpulicans, but in terms of how we rule and govern. I find it completely likely that we are in the middle of circumstances that can slide right down the fascism tube. He doesn't have to be a itler, he could be a Yuchenko. He is, however, still a totalitarian, who has surrounded himself with scheming right wing nationalists and put them in positions of power and authority.

[Stan]

A more recent parallel might be Berlusconi - rich, sexist, has many lawsuits, fascist tendencies, yet those things have not dented his popularity with many. Berlosconi reportedly went into politics to boost his failing businesses and used his position to move money his way. He has close ties with Putin, mainly due to mutual business interests.

[Phoebe]

I would agree with you except that so many people who have many important friends in the highest places nowadays keep promising to put the lying, seditious (((opposition party))) and FAKE NEWS (((media))) into (((OVENS))). That gives it a bit more Nazi flavor.