Deadpool 2017 Vetting

[Mike]

Here's the full list of nominated celebrities for 2017. For people who submitted extremely extensive lists, I only took their top 40 into account. We're looking for two things here:

1. Anyone who is already dead. We're not playing gotcha here. If someone has nominated a dead person, we'll pull them from the list and just move everything else up.

2. Anyone who we don't think is famous enough. Read the rules in you want more detail on what this might mean, but it's potentially subjective. We'll discuss as needed.


Alan Alda
Alec Baldwin
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Angela Lansbury
Angela Merkel
Ann-Margaret
Anthony Daniels
Aretha Franklin
Barbara Bush
Barry Gibb
Bashar al-Assad
Betty White
Beverly Cleary
Bill Clinton
Bill Cosby
Billy Graham
Bob Barker
Bob Dole
Bob Griese
Bob Newhart
Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
Bobby Brown
Bono
Bret Michaels
Brigitte Bardot
Brittany Daniel
Bryan Cranston
Bryant Gumbel
Buzz Aldrin
Carl Reiner
Carol Burnett
Carol Channing
Carrie Fisher
Charles Koch
Charles Manson
Charlie Sheen
Charlotte Rae
Cher
Chris Brown 
Christopher Plummer
Chuck Barris
Chuck Berry
Clint Eastwood
Daniel Radcliffe
David Attenborough
David Koch
David Letterman
David Rockefeller
Debbie Reynolds
Desmond Tutu
Dick Cheney
Dick van Dyke
Don Imus
Don Rickles
Donald Trump
Doris Day
Drew Barrymore
Ed Asner
Eleanor Holmes Norton
Fats Domino
Fidel Castro
Frank Miller
Frankie Muniz
Fred Durst
George H.W. Bush
George W Bush
Glen Campbell
Gord Downie
Greg Louganis
Harrison Ford
Harry Belafonte
Henry Kissinger
Herman Cain
Hillary Clinton
Hugh Hefner
J.K. Rowling
Jack Nicholson
Jacques Chirac
James Randi
Jamie Farr
Jamie Lee Curtis
Jared Leto
Jennifer Lawrence
Jerry Lewis
Jim Brown
Jim Kelly
Jimmy Carter
Jimmy Superfly Snuka
Joan Collins
Joe Jackson (manager)
Joe Jackson (musician)
John Hurt
Johnny Depp
Judi Dench
Kanye West
Kathy Bates
Keith Richards
Kenny Rogers
Kim Kardashian
Kim Novak
Kirk Douglas
Kirstie Alley
Lady Gaga
Lamar Odom
Larry Lieber
Laura Bush
Lawrence Taylor
Lee "Scratch" Perry
Leslie Phillips
Lil Wayne
Linda Hunt
Little Richard
Maggie Smith
Malcolm Young
Margaret O'Brien
Mark Ruffalo
Marla Gibbs
Martin Sheen
Martin Shkreli
Mary Tyler Moore
Matthew Perry
Max Baer Jr.
Max von Sydow
McCoy Tyner
Mel Brooks
Mel Tillis
Mia Farrow
Michael Douglas
Michael J. Fox
Mikhail Gorbachev
Montel Williams
Morgan Freeman
Morrissey
Ned Beatty
Nichelle Nichols
Nicole Richie
Olivia de Havilland
Oprah
Oscar Pistorius
Paula Deen
Peter Sallis
Prince Phillip
Queen Elizabeth
Queen Elizabeth II
Randy Travis
Rene Auberjenois
Richard Adams
Richard Chamberlain
Rick Springfield
Rob Lowe
Robert Downey Jr.
Robert Mugabe
Robin Roberts
Rosie O'Donnell
Russell Brand
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Sacha Cohen
Scott Hamilton
Shannen Doherty
Shonda Rhimes
Silvio Berlusconi
Stan Lee
Stephen Hawking
Stephen King
Suge Knight
Susan Sarandon
Ted Nugent
The Edge 
Tila Tequila 
Tippi Hedren
Tom Baker
Tom Brokaw
Tommy Chong
Toni Braxton
Tony Bennett
Topper Headon
Val Kilmer
Valerie Harper
Vladimir Putin
Walter Mondale
Wilko Johnson
William Shatner
Yoko Ono

[Mike]

Names that I believe are new this year that I didn't immediately recognize:

Anthony Daniels -- C3PO
Bob Griese -- Hall of Fame NFL Quarterback
Brittany Daniel -- Actress (Joe Dirt, Sweet Valley High)
Eleanor Holmes Norton -- U.S. Congresswoman (non-voting representative, District of Columbia)
Gord Downie -- Canadian lead singer/lyricist for The Tragically Hip; occasional actor
James Randi -- Magician/professional skeptic; mentor/idol of Penn & Teller
Joe Jackson (musician) -- Steppin Out; Is She Really Going Out with Him
Larry Lieber -- Comic book artist/writer; younger brother of Stan Lee
Lawrence Taylor -- NFL Hall of Famer
Lee "Scratch" Perry -- Jamaican music producer; pioneer of dub
Leslie Phillips -- British actor (Harry Potter films, Tomb Raider, Empire of the Sun, lots of British stuff)
Malcolm Young -- Cofounder/Guitarist for AC/DC
Martin Shkreli -- Professional asshole
Oscar Pistorius -- Amputee sprinter; murderer
Peter Sallis -- British actor (Voice of Wallace of "and Grommit" fame)
Richard Adams -- Author (Watership Down)
Topper Headon -- Drummer for The Clash

Some of these (like Anthony Daniels), I immediately recognized on looking them up, and have no doubt they qualify, but if they are new to the NP Deadpool and I didn't recognize them right away, they're on this list.

[Mike]

Of those, Lee "Scratch" Perry is the only one I'm calling out right away. There's nothing in his repertoire that I recognize except for the claim that he is a "dub pioneer". My vote is to cross him out.

There are a handful of others that I can see people making a case for, and I could be persuaded on some, but I'm also fine letting all the rest go if no one else chooses to challenge them.

[Tahlvin]

I'm not sure about James Randi. Doesn't seem famous enough that it would show up on mainstream news if he does happen to die. But maybe that's just that I don't frequent the correct news sites for this sort of thing, so I'll defer if others think it valid.

[akiva]

I think Lee Perry should stay--he's an important and innovative person in one of the most influential music of the last 40 years.

[Mike]

Okay, for fun, I'm changing the opening post to a poll. It allows 10 options, so I've narrowed the list to 10. Some probably aren't questionable, but I want 10 options.

People will be able to vote for who IS famous enough to be in, they can vote for as many as they like, and they can even change their vote later if something persuades them.

My reasoning here is that people don't challenge people often or don't want to speak up, because we're all friends and no one wants to hurt anyone's feelings, so we let in more "celebrities" than many of us are comfortable with, and people complain afterwards. This way, you can cast your vote anonymously, and no one gets hurt.

VOTE!

[Kyle]

Lee Perry ought to be eliminated. Never heard of him and won't be reported on the news.

McCoy Tyner should be struck. I understand he was a jazz pianist. I know he played with Coltrane. But he was also credited as "etc." on many of those albums. This doesn't rise to the level of celebrity that we're looking for here.

I also don't think Wilko Johnson is famous enough, but I'm willing to listen to argument on that one. Like- I've heard of Dr. Feelgood, but I'm not sure that's enough.

I think people need to take a step back and objectively look at our list and see how music-centric it is. And I appreciate how many people that participate are professional musicians. But for god's sake, we're talking about kicking Bob Griese off the list- a guy who is on national television every week as a sports announcer, was a professional quarterback for 13 years and won two superbowls.

Really? I mean, take a step back and look at this. We're talking celebrities- not just people you guys know about. Just because most of you don't appreciate sports doesn't mean we should exclude them as celebrities.

[Mike]

Okay... that's taking a big step back. I don't know if we have time for it, but I didn't question McCoy Tyner or Wilko Johnson and a bunch of others, because they were already accepted in previous years. They've already been vetted. Granted our prior vetting was probably flawed, but this current discussion is based solely on people who are questionable AND who are new this year.

If we want a vote on EVERYONE, then we need a new process.

The simplest would be for us to define better what we mean by celebrity, and then I send a list of questionables, and everyone sends me which ones they think we reject.

Happy to do it. And since we have this discussion every year, I'd like to lock it down as well as we can so we have a more straightforward procedure in the future.

[Mike]

And for what it's worth, Gord Downie, Larry Leiber, and Lee Perry look to be the only ones getting crossed off this year of the ten newbies I put up.

[DMDarcs]

I voted to keep everyone in, because in an age where we can all reach into our pocket, pull out a device, and find out the answer to whom someone is in about five seconds, this really shouldn't be a big deal. I've tried to stop picking "classical" musicians whose deaths would be very noticeable because I don't have the energy or willingness to explain to someone why Pierre Boulez dying is a big deal when you can just go onto Wikipedia and find this out. It really shouldn't be that big a deal to stick someone's name in and find out that they're a hall of fame football player. I'd never head of Joey Feek before, because I don't listen to country music, but that doesn't mean that her celebrity should have been in question. It was a great play by Nadia in my opion. Hell, Gene Gene the Dancing Machine was on the list for years, and what was his celebrity status... a bit part on a syndicated game show for 4 years? I was wrong in voting out several of the sports journalists who died this year - I didn't know who they were and didn't think their deaths would really go noticed....but yet I see their obits on boingboing.net and on an In Memorium on ABC.

I really dislike the idea of having to go through every single person as to whether they count as a celebrity or not. (And I think if we were going to have to define a minimum level of celebrity, we would we have to, as I'm sure there are people who have previously been accepted that wouldn't meet the criteria.) I think people could decide to screw with someone's picks by just denying celebrity status to people they haven't heard of because they're not knowledgeable in that field. Everyone has certain people in their wheelhouse that they know more about: sports, classical music, punk musicians, Republican congresspeople, former heads of state, reality TV stars. If their death is enough to be reported on by a verifiable news outlet, then it should be ok. If you want to go and pick someone who you think is a negligible celebrity, that's your decision - your risk is that the death may not be reported.

[Zombie]

lol @ professional asshole

This is a good idea: If their death is enough to be reported on by a verifiable news outlet, then it should be ok. If you want to go and pick someone who you think is a negligible celebrity, that's your decision - your risk is that the death may not be reported.

[Mike]

If we go that way, is there a minimum requirement for celebrity? Must have a Wikipedia page, for example?

[Kyle]

But what you're saying, Darcs, is that we then have to agree to who our reporting service is. Is CNN.com good enough? Because they report everyone-- it's just a database and a two second description for them. Many of those people I wouldn't consider celebrities either.

The point of the system we have is that we debate, as a group, whether someone qualifies as a celebrity. But in the last few years, these debates get shut down because people take the conversation personally and there are hurt feelings.

But the point is that there shouldn't be. I nominated Gord Downie, knowing that he was borderline. The group is saying, "No." and I'm fine with that. I understood that when I included him.

Mike- for me, whether someone is previously vetted or not, if we haven't discussed them before, then I think that's open game. I haven't been able to meaningfully participate in the last two years in the vetting or the composition of draft list due to family stuff. But I don't think that means we can't have a discussion on it. That being said, if we've already discussed McCoy Tyner and Wilko Johnson, then I'll agree they can be kept in. But I think it's unfair to say we're taking "a big step backwards" when I bring up two names. I just want people to talk about them.

[Zombie]

Could just go off this:

http://www.cnn.com/specials/world/obit-2016

They do it each year. I think everyone on the lists for 2016 made it, don't think obscure names would make it.


EDIT: I plan to submit a list post draft. I forgot to get my list in on time. Sorry!

[Kyle]

Hey guys, Richard Adams died this morning. So we don't need to discuss him.

[Mike]

[Kyle]

[Mike]

Yes. There's some kind of allowance for that in the rules.

[DMDarcs]

Actually, Mike....did you get my list? It's not showing up in my outbox or sent messages. I sent it to you Christmas Eve after I got done with my gig (around 9:45 my time?).

EDIT: I'm guessing you didn't, as I notice that several celebrities I put on the list aren't on the master list.

[Kyle]

Well, I'll go with it if everyone else will- and then I'll think about my Gord Downie pick after the draft.