Starfinder

[Tahlvin]

I'm in!

[Stan]

unorganized observations:

Magic progression is slower, with casters getting a new spell level every 3 levels instead of every 2. With no play experience I can't be certain, but I think this will help keep casters from overshadowing noncasters. There's also no equivalent to the wizard and their ability to outshine any class just by adjusting their spell mix - casters have to pick a build like everyone else.

Ship building looks interesting. Lots of options but not still just pulling stuff off of menus - not the overly gritty detail of something like Striker. It also largely avoids the issue of "everybody watch the pilot during combat." I haven't seen yet if there are any overly optimal builds.

All the species are ok but none of them sing to me. I like all of the classes and they all have possible variations. The mechanic can delve into the super complex world of Pathfinder's summoner. The solar powered jedi looks interesting, can't tell yet how strong it is - it and some of the other classes have the ability to do special things without actual spells.

It looks like you're expected to get new weapons/armor every level or 2 to stay on the outrageous power curve. It's annoying but you sign up for that with pretty much any D20 game. The lack of iterative attacks (which could be tedious, especially as each one had a different mod), makes it especially critical to keep the damage values marching forward.

I feel like Paizo and WOTC copy off each other a fair amount. But, as a player, that's a good thing as good ideas get repeated. Pathfinder has traits, a good idea with an overly complicated implementation that makes it feel like unneeded chrome. D&D 5e toned it down to backgrounds, a nice way to get skills not in your class and a small extra. Themes are similarly simple but theme can be a background or something else so it has more flexible fluff. This idea is more centrally implemented in Numenara, where the thing you do or are into is as important as your class.

Feats, on the whole, are meh, mostly carried over from Pathfinder. I like that they made focus and specialization broader, though focus is even more useless now as it's not a prerequisite.

The skill list got simplified more, compared to Pathfinder, which is good. I like Pathfinder's approach over 3e's as it's less fiddly. But you still have ridiculously expanding skill values that require similarly explosive DCs. On the whole, I prefer the additional simplicity of 5e skills.

[Mike]

As for races... My biggest complaint is that the expansion books can't get to me fast enough. 80 new races (most of them playable in some form) are coming next month. Then we'll get worlds. Every new book, including adventure paths, is going to have new creatures, races, and worlds as far as I can tell.

I just want it all NOW. I want the fully fleshed out setting we'll have a year from now.

[Stan]

80 races! That will make will make it feel mixed up and crazy! In a good way.
Hopefully, there's a ship book coming, too.

One other things - with the default point system for ability scores and a level 1 max of 18, any race can be any class without a mechanical hindrance. For example, I can take a Vesk (-2 Int), drop all 10 pts on Int and be as smart as any other Technomancer.

Not surprising but Paizo once again made pdfs of the core book very reasonably priced and made far more of it OGL than they are legally required to.

[Mike]

All Paizo Starfinder products that are on the release schedule right now (I'm not including all the cards and maps and screens and pawns and other accessories, because there's a ton of them):

Currently Available
Starfinder Core Rulebook
Starfinder First Contact (has a few alien races... free PDF)
Starfinder Into the Unknown (a series of encounters that form an introductory adventure... free PDF)
Starfinder Adventure Path: Incident at Absalom Station (Dead Suns 1)

Upcoming
Oct-2017 -- Starfinder Adventure Path: Temple of the Twelve (Dead Suns 2)
Oct-2017 -- Starfinder Alien Archive (80 new alien races, at least a third of them readily playable and the others adaptable)
Dec-2017 -- Starfinder Adventure Path: Splintered Worlds (Dead Suns 3)
Feb-2018 -- Starfinder Adventure Path: The Ruined Clouds (Dead Suns 4)
Mar-2018 -- Starfinder Pact Worlds
Apr-2018 -- Starfinder Adventure Path: The Thirteenth Gate (Dead Suns 5)
Jun-2018 -- Starfinder Adventure Path: Empire of Bones (Dead Suns 6)

Presumably after this will be a starship resource book, an expanded equipment guide, Near Space worlds, a creature book, a new magic guide, outer worlds, a players guide with new classes and themes, eventually there will be a guide to outer planes (I can't wait to see what Hell looks like with Starfinder technology in it), and of course a new Adventure Path starting every August. Everything I've mentioned here will take until well into 2019.

[Stan]

Thanks, for some reason, I forgot to look for official free stuff.
Something else useful is character sheets for all of the iconics at levels 1, 4, and 8 so you can see typical gear and abilities.

[Mike]

Nice. I haven't seen that yet.

[Cazmonster]

I had to hunt down the free stuff so I don't have to convert every monster for Starfinder. I'm super happy that they put the conversion rules in the book to get you going.

[Tahlvin]

When I was putting together my character for Caz's game, I felt the feats available at first level were pretty limited, and were heavily skewed towards combat. Maybe that'll change with future supplements.

[Stan]

[Phoebe]

The archetypes are especially nice for people who don't get much into stats, or who want to leap in without fussing too much over character creation. I.e. me.

[El Jefe]

[Zen]

Question: Since I can't find anything specific about what the critical is for an unmodified Solar Weapon, I presume it is just double damage. Would that be correct?

[Mike]

Yes. If there is nothing listed under critical, then it's just straight double damage.

[Stan]

[El Jefe]

[bralbovsky]

I know it's not my game, but I just noticed that my avatar has four arms. It would sadden me deeply if there aren't more specific feats or traits for specific races. Sure, sure, everyone in the sandbox has to have access to all the toys, but it spoils it somehow. It's certainly not 'realistic' (by which I mean consistent with the assertion that folks come from different places).
Pathfinder utterly fails at this. (DND failed first)
Please tell me I am wrong in my assumptions.

[El Jefe]

Fusillade. If you've got 4 arms (via cyberware or being a kasatha) and 4 of the same small arms, you get to fire them all at once.

That's from memory. I can check to see if there are more later.

[Stan]

You're right, it's not useless. Just not exciting. I'm also glad to see feat trees largely gone. In PF/3e, it feels like you have to plan out all your feats at level one or you might mess up and not be able to get where you're going or not have the right ability score.

Setting aside fantasy vs SF and all the fluff aspects, I think Starfinder is better than Pathfinder. And Pathfinder is already good, just not entirely to my taste. I think part of the issue is that they really needed to keep 3e fans (after seeing 4e stumble a bit), so they were careful not to make too many changes; many of the minor annoyances for me are things inherited from 3e. With Starfinder, they have a large established fan base and have an excuse to make some changes.


Last night, I started fiddling with ship building. Just getting started, but I noticed a few irregularities - in things that don't affect actual gameplay. The main issue is cargo spaces, which fail to ramp up properly with size. The number of passengers or cargo in a huge ship is pitifully small. For designing NPC civilian ship, I'd double capacity per slot for each size beyond medium or just wing it. Totally not a big deal but it just struck me how not simulationist the rules are. I built a bunch a Traveller ships decades ago and messed around with Saga Star Wars shipbuilding. Traveller designers did rough math to figure out actual volumes and what was possible. Star Wars tried to make sense but suffered under the EU where they tried to establish consistency with previously established facts which were inconsistent with each other (in the small details). Star Wars shipbuilding is more simulationist than Starfinder but less than Traveller.

[Mike]