Starfinder

[El Jefe]

Reika: From the few I've built, the 1000 credits doesn't even go as far as the starting gold. Maybe not even half as far. And it isn't just at first level. If you're playing a martial type and want to keep up your tech curve, it may very well be more difficult to do than in PF.

Akiva: It is a standalone system, requiring only its own rulebook, which you can pick up for $10 as a PDF from Paizo's site. And I find it pretty easy to look over and understand, regardless of familiarity level.

[Reika]

Jeff- Ouch, that is terrible.

Akiva -what Jeff said. I think if anything, it'll be easier than 3e.

[El Jefe]

The computer rules are a mess. There is no nice way to say that. But this section of the book failed, in my mind. Honestly, that's a compliment, more than anything, because few core rulebooks make it through with only a single point of failure. (I love the hell out of SR4A: The Anniversary Edition, but it has multiple points of failure, not the least of which is the mess of endless loops that commlink security becomes. Let's not even start on when you try to mix fake IDs with the commlink loop.) This is the first section I've looked at where I starting the corner of the lip curled up, and the eye rolls started. I understand what they were shooting for, and I appreciate the attempt, but the implementation fell flat. Thankfully, enough of the core is useable with some moderate modifications, I think. But I need to think on exactly how to handle this now, after having tried to build several tech characters and their relevant hand-held computers.

The problems
Computers are not tied into skill checks in any way that I can find. That means when you are hacking, a hacking kit is all you need. Sounds great, right? Except for the fact that you need to physically be next to (and directly interfacing with) a computer to hack it...outside of the ability that a mechanic can get with their custom rig to wirelessly hack. And that sounds fine, in theory, I guess? The problem I have is that this gives no way for other hacking type classes to do the classic "I'll hack the security on-site, or from the van, or from home, etc." trope. Additionally, it strips gear entirely out of the equation, meaning that a hacker is defined exclusively by their skills, rather than by a combination of skills and gear. And I think I can make myself okay with that mentality. It is weird though that you need only use a hacking kit, and not another computer, when hacking into another system. But it means that players need to be aware that hacking (outside of the purview of the mechanic) is done entirely through daisy-chaining hacked systems together (to get access from outside a location), or entirely on-site using an existing system that you physically access. And all of this comes back to just using a hacking kit, a 20 credit piece of gear that will forever be as effective as your skills are. You need never spend credits on a computer at all, or work to upgrade it, which seems...odd.

Control and memory modules are a mess. Apparently, you buy memory modules...for a specific topic or range of topics only? It's not storage space, but some sort of onboard encyclopedia. And control modules need to be purchased for each specific piece of gear you want to connect to. So, if you're a tech type, and you want to hack an enemy system, you just need the hacking kit. But if you want to have a computer you can carry around, you'll need to buy at least a tier 1 computer, with 1 level of miniaturization and likely a Range II upgrade if you want any kind of distance (unless you want to find a table to set your computer on every time you want to use it), then buy a separate control module for your video camera, your detonator, your spy drone, your laser microphone, and your motion detector. That is five separate control modules, then another memory module as appropriate, I guess? But unless you are worried about someone hacking back into your computer, you'll never need to upgrade its tier, as that is the way a base DC is determined to hack a system.

My head is starting to hurt reading over the computer system section.

[Mike]

Okay, I'm not the expert you are, Jeff. Heck, I never did bother to learn the decking/hacking stuff from Shadowrun, even after GMing it for years. But having said that, I'm okay with computers and the Computer skill so far. To me, it seems analogous to a cyber version of Disable Device. Computer skill is for getting into systems and for build/repair and such, but once you're in, you can pretty much use the machine for whatever it was designed for. And as far as having to be physically next to a system to hack it, the rules say, "requires you to have to have physical contact with the computer or to make contact through an infosphere or similar network that is linked to the computers." So if you are on a planet with wireless access to their Internet, then you could definitely use your personal device to hack a machine that is connected to the infosphere. Or more likely, you'd hack some net server, and then from that chain your way back to whatever computer you're actually looking for.

I don't have a full grasp of building/designing computers yet, so I have no comment on those. And I admit that I could be completely wrong in my understanding so far.

[bralbovsky]

Star Frontiers did a passable job of a playable skill tree system, primitive, but playable. Any attempt to sketch out access for computers, even today, would require you know a language structure, code protocols, and more. Then add different races, star systems, it's untenable. I'd suggest that it be handled like a magic system: you know certain schools, certain spells (or functions), and don't know others. That's not precise, but it's likely playable. Replace components with components, and you might be able to manage.

This is off the top of my head. I'm sorry I have no idea how starfinder makes it happen, but I played a lot of the ancient space games, Traveler, etc, and it came to a crapload of approximate calculus when it was done enjoyably.

[El Jefe]

[Mike]

Cool.

And for the record, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was trying to be deferential, because you put a lot more thought into this sort of tactical analysis than I do.

[El Jefe]

Side note: After reading after-action reports on the first Adventure Path...so glad I'm going for my own thing with Starfinder. Because that module sounds like utter shit.

Was this the adventure experience that Pat and Caz mentioned on Facebook? Because if so...that's outright terrible.

[El Jefe]

If you want to see some of the underlying assumptions and theories that led to Starfinder, here's the place to start.



It is interesting to me that mind-controlled players and summoned monsters seem to cause so much reconsideration of core mechanics. Neither of these see heavy amounts of use in my current games (even with a summoner present, because eidolons are just that much cooler than a summoned critter).

[El Jefe]

Holy crap. Halflings became insanely filled with bonuses in the Starfinder conversion. 3 +2 bonuses to skills, reduced penalties on various Stealth tasks, save bonuses as before, stat bonuses as before...dang.

[Phoebe]

We like to refer to that as The Illian Effect.

[Cazmonster]

Oh yes, I have my copy. I need to figure out a way to run this game with you lovely people. I need to read the book and I'm not sure when that's going to happen.

[Eliahad]

[Cazmonster]

Do you guys want to stop space whalers? I want you to stop space whalers. Maybe I can finagle a Roll20 before the end of September.

[Phoebe]

[Cazmonster]

I will do everything I can to get this read and ready for a one-shot with up to six people here. I need to figure out Roll20 as well.

Six 1st level Starfinders get a chance to explore the deep black for the first time.

Also, I haven't gotten to GM anything in years, so that will be exciting.

[Zen]

Sounds good to me!

[Mike]

I'm in! (If you'll have me.)

[Cazmonster]

I will take up to six. I will also have to start looking at my late September schedule.

EXCITED!

[Stan]

I'd love to fight space whalers. Haven't had time to read the rules yet but will soon.