[Deep Thoughts] Morel Orel

[Kyle]

How important are morals in a healthy society? What are the most important morals for citizens to have?

[Mike]

Extremely important.

And the only one that matters is: Be good to everyone. Do unto others. Don't be a dick. LOVE EVERYONE!

Everything else is just an extension of that foundation.

[Phoebe]

But there are, like, four different things in that foundation. Can we assume they're all equally important? But then what prioritization happens when they conflict? Maybe they never conflict.

[Mike]

Split hairs to your heart's content.

Be kind.

[Zen]

Speaking of splitting hairs, I've always had a... rather strange personal definition of what exactly morals are. What most people consider "morals" I think of as "ethics". Morals are, in my opinion, personal and not determined by society. They are a personal code of behavior that, by the very nature of them, cannot be violated. Ones behavior, by definition, demonstrates them. (Basically, the concept is that it is impossible for an individual to behave in a manner that is contrary to their moral code. Contrary to their ethical code, yes, but not their moral code. If they can do it, it is within their character to carry out the act.)

That said, I would say ethics are vital to a healthy society, and sorely lacking in many strata of modern society.

[Tahlvin]

You're generally right (IMO). However, I believe it's certainly possible for a person to violate their own moral code. They may believe it's immoral to cheat on their spouse, but that doesn't stop them from doing it. What determines whether that's part of their moral code or just talk is whether they feel guilty about the cheating after the fact: if they feel guilty, that's because they know they committed an immoral act; if they don't then they don't really feel it was immoral and their talk about cheating being immoral is just that much hot air. And of course, guilt over having violated their moral code can lead to all sorts of wonderful things in and of itself!

At least that's this particular non-philosopher's take on the matter.

[Zen]

[bralbovsky]

"...not in our stars, but in ourselves..."
There is good news and bad news: Society needs moral codes, systems of rules for language for commerce, for everything. Otherwise, no society.
Ten Commandments, golden rules, laws of the sea allow us to agree to, generally, shared values. This allows currency to hold value, allows families to exist, allows all of those modern blessings to be maintained. Sure, there are folks who disregard them, but we mostly think they're assholes.

A stated 'moral code,' an oath of office, marriage vows, is different from an internal one.

We all like to be thought of as moral, as being able to keep a secret, as trustworthy. We go to great lengths sometimes to pretend we are all those things. But moral codes are like faith, fidelity to a cause, courage, they are inside us. When choices get at all difficult - "What price Senator?" "Hiya Sailor..." well short of being able to force oneself to enter a burning building, many of us fold.

This confusion about what we say we believe and what we internalize, clouds every discussion of morality.
Otherwise, how can someone like a former Speaker we shall not name (serial adulterer) crow about his support for the sanctity of marriage?
Otherwise, how can an armed and armored police officer who murdered an unarmed civilian in cowardice, claim he was just doing his job?

In our secret selves, we have a code, which mostly we dare not swear to.

[Zen]

On that note... I have Jury Duty this week! YAY!