The Military

[Bonefish]

[Tahlvin]

I'm all for revisiting our views of some of the founding fathers. And I'm all for revisiting the National Anthem. We absolutely need to have a discussion about these things, and there should be more acknowledgement of the role slavery played in the nation's founding and early history.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't go ahead now and address the Confederacy and Lost Cause bullshit. And as you mentioned, there were folks like Longstreet who did repent and attempt to atone, and the Lost Cause has ensured they did not get many statues, and they weren't the people the modern army bases were named after.

[Tahlvin]

BTW, on the subject.

[Bonefish]

[akiva]

One thing I don't get about the military is how they claim to be non-political. They lobby Congress; they stage events for the President; unofficially, they leak information to friendly members of Congress and supporters in order to advance their cause.

Why do people believe that the military is apolitical?

[Phoebe]

[Tahlvin]

Look, I’m good with tearing down statues/monuments to Confederates and colonialists. But tearing down a statue of U. S. Grant because he married into a slave family and owned a slave for a very short period of time, and then set free rather than sell, is BS. Especially given Grant’s Civil War victory and post-war work for Black civil rights.

[FlameBlade]

Then again, Grant really decimated Native Americans.

[bralbovsky]

The Native American question makes every evil American impulse huge. Nobody in leadership has got it right yet.
That's another thread all by itself.

[Phoebe]

At this point, given the way the Ulysses Grant thing is being used as a meme, I'll trust that it was the product of a Black Lives Matter related protest when I hear the organizers of that movement claim it deliberately. And they may well do that for their own reasons, but I'm just wary of drawing conclusions about anything the maga clan is making public hay with. Where I live there is a huge disconnect between some of the things that are going on in the midst of chaos, and things the actual protest leaders have organized and are trying to get people to do. We are in what you might call a low factual information situation at this point. You have to get things from the horse's mouth.

[Tahlvin]

His Native American policy seems to have started out promising, but then fell victim to politics of expediency. But I haven’t reached that part of the book yet, so I may be completely off base.

[poorpete]

I dunno if there's any American figure who is constantly reassessed as Grant. Maybe Truman? It's a good thing.

Honestly, a hundred years from now, when culture views meat-eating as a great sin and they tear down all statues except for Jane Goodall's... it'll be fine. If they are great works of art: put them in a museum. If they are of deep religious or historical importance: put them in the museum. Otherwise, meh!

[Ronster]

If destruction of our nation's flag is protected speech, surely the display of one it has defeated is protected?

I disagree with many of these things being said, displayed, or done, but I think they should have the right to do them.

The military answers to the UCMJ law, so the marine has to do what he is told. His 1st Amendment is somewhat limited. That is what happens when you join the military. It saddens me that someone who has sacrificed so much would have what little is left diminished because of "feelings" . Gov't vehicles, etc. whatever don't care what you do to them. Paint them pink if it makes them better, but personal possession?! hrumph! I think it is petty for people he protects to be happy about it.

my 2 cents is free

[Mike]

I think this is the right move. The Confederacy was formed to fight for and perpetuate slavery and racism. It was not "states rights", because those same southern states fought viciously against states rights when it was matters of returning escaped slaves and such. Politicians were as hypocritical then as now. At the time, the Confederates themselves stated directly that it wasabout slavery. On top of that, the Confederacy was treason. They fought the U.S.A. and killed U.S. citizens. They were traitors, by law.

When you are a marine living on a marine base, your actions and speech (as you point out) are restricted by the Corp, because you reflect the Corp in what you say and do. The Confederate flag stands for values and events that are inconsistent with the principles of the U.S. Marine Corp. It shouldn't be on display. Nor should a Nazi flag. Or a Soviet flag. Or a God Hates Gays banner. Or any of a million other examples. Most people wouldn't argue about the propriety of flying a schwastika on a marine base, so we agree that there are limits. I get that you don't agree that the Confederate flag crosses a line, but I say it absolutely does, and this restriction is justified.

[Ronster]

[Mike]