Tax Deductions

[Phoebe]

So I gather today is the day, if you want to take full advantage of deductions that might phase out next year and beyond. I understand Olympia Snowe singlehandedly made it so that most people can deduct most all their mortgage interest or other donations and expenses - except maybe for people who live in big cities and blue states, who can be punished both for being too liberal and having more expensive properties. Something that puzzles me: we worry a lot about farmers who own properties that seem more expensive than what they can "afford" if they were paying property taxes the same way as everyone else, and we don't want them to close up shop because of this so it seems reasonable to help lower their tax bill, but for some reason when it comes to doctors and nurses and scientists and other experts who need to live in a big expensive city to be near their labs and hospitals and such, I don't hear any concern about the big taxes on real estate there, to say nothing of the people priced totally out of those markets.

Anyway, I reflect on the tax bill and cannot believe that the same people who will cry foul when someone uses government assistance to buy a bag of frozen shrimp for their hungry kids are totally okay with just GIVING BOTH THEIR MONEY AND MY MONEY AND ALL OF OUR MONIES AWAY to people who ALREADY HAVE ALL THE DAMN MONIES. What the hell is this dipshittery and why do I have to live with it, Republicans?

[WillyGilligan]

The Republican argument is that a tax cut is not giving money to the rich. They had the money already, this just lets them keep more of what they made. And that's actually a true position. It may be that we need certain spending and the best way to fund that spending is by taxing the wealthy more, but letting them keep it isn't giving them anything, except in a VERY roundabout way that increasing the debt affects all of us. But then we could cut spending to prevent that, various other economically wonky arguments follow from that, etc.

I don't believe that taxation is theft, because of the social contract, but your property (money) still starts as your property.

[Cazmonster]

Here's my two cents on wealth distribution. With as rich as the wealthiest are, they can't actually spend everything they have. Even with a few hundred exorbitant outfits and more places to live than seasons, there still comes a limit to what they can spend on. That same money in scores of family budgets is going to get more things bought, meaning more people will get paid providing those things.

[Phoebe]

Caz is right that if we were making decisions about how to institute taxation systems purely for the country's financial health, this would be the wrong way to go about doing it. It's much better if the wealth generated gets reinvested in some way. Buying stocks may seem like a reinvestment but the surpluses generated aren't even getting reinvested successfully in business operations that would help workers. The .01% makes money on the growth of business, which it uses to enhance its ability to make money on investments, which goes right straight back into the pockets of the .01% wealthy. The rest of the people are not seeing any of these gains. Wages continue to drift lower relative to their purchasing power and relative to the gains of those at the top of the system.

We could put all that aside and just ask, why is it that capital gains should be treated as if they are "earned" by the person who made the investment, and therefore that the money belongs to them automatically? Some people take this as gospel and it's just not obvious. A system was created that permits you to do this and the rules of that system are set up a certain way. They weren't handed down by nature or God and there are deliberate human choices made about how this is all going to be done. We don't have to treat this kind of money as if it is free. Republicans act like capitalism is some invisible natural system that has to function in this completely unfettered fashion in order to function at all, or to function fairly, and that's just not true.

[Zen]

Who said they want it to function FAIRLY? That's a joke!

[Phoebe]

Well, you know, working people who don't have enough money to make most of their income from investments are probably lazy "takers" who aren't driving the economy forward.

[WillyGilligan]

[Phoebe]

The link above tells us something about the history of capital gains taxes in the United States. It's not entirely self-explanatory but a quick glance illustrates that investors are doing pretty well under this arrangement.



This is a comparison between the rates paid to tax those capital gains and the top rates for the highest income earners. It's not clear to me why there is such a vast difference in the taxes paid on these different sources of income. The circular sidebar on the right of this chart tells you a little bit about who benefits and how much.



Taxes are really just not something that wealthy earners, particularly those who make most of their money from investment, are bothered by. And yet they were so very bothered that it was important for us to take a huge swipe out of that tax burden just recently! Can you even imagine how all of the above charts are going to change after the most recent tax bill? The level of inequality and unfairness we are tolerating this country right now is astonishing. It puts the lie to arguments about economic anxiety.

[Phoebe]

On tax day let me just celebrate what happens when you have an accountant and you get to take advantage of special back doors in the tax code instituted under W. Can't wait till next year to find out what happens! It's interesting because I never entered this life with a goal of making money, and I have a clear sense that you can't take any of it with you when you die or even go to the nursing home. You have to be a lot richer than I am before you're actually to the level of profiting truly unfairly from this system. But the closer I get the more obvious it becomes! Maybe this is just a little more of my special brand of intellectual dishonesty, but y'all, rich people are so much f****** over the poor people now it's not even funny. I don't even know what to say. I'm so astonished that these are facts anybody can figure out and yet no one seems to give a s*** or do anything about it. Drain that swamp, you know, fetuses & guns! Be sure to vote Republican because it's lining my pocket just a little bit. Apparently it's lining my dad's pocket, and the pockets of other people in my family who have businesses or enough investment income that that's where they make most of their money.

Two interesting notes:
Over the past month with the help of an accountant I have taken legal steps to avoid paying taxes in ways I did not think were possible, but which I owe to Republicans. I also took legal steps to make sure that I'm paying taxes properly for services, which 99% of people do not do. When upper-middle-class white people start having to pay hefty fines or do jail time because they are cheating on taxes by paying their illegal immigrant workers under the table, let me know.

[bralbovsky]

There is a fundamental disconnect in our economy between value added and wealth collected. We have, among other things, inflated the 'value' of risk (and frequently exaggerated the actual risk) in business ventures. This creates a structural imbalance that allows folks who add absolutely no value, or very little, to a product or service, to collect a large portion of the profits.

[FlameBlade]

Just pointing out that wealthy benefits the infrastructure.

For example, Walmart? Lots of workers are on food stamp, so we are effectively subsidizing Walmart. So they really didn't earn that money. We are paying for a number of workers who needs assistance for wages.

So...forgive me if I think wealthy should be taxed more to cover all sort of stuff that they benefit from because of all the peon workers are covered by benefits because they are not paid enough for.

[bralbovsky]

Another huge problem is the sequestering of a ton of money that never really does the economy any good, which used to be shaken loose somewhat by estate taxes.
If a billionaire spent proportionately, I'd have no issue, but one can only buy so many pairs of pants or hamburgers, even planes.

[mimekiller]

I Know everyone rails against wal mart because its so big, not sure why Target and K-mart never get thrown in but its not like they set the min wage.

I have more issues with the creatures and cretins that shop at Wal-Mart then I do the company! What awful people!

[bralbovsky]

K-marts business model evolved. They used to be five and dimes, and when they went big, they looked for markets where there wasn't much going on.

Walmart purposely undercut established local markets in order to create micro , local monopolies. s they exploded, they dishonestly claimed to have primarily American made products until they got caught and shamed. They also have a long standing reputation for underpaying workers.

Can't speak to Target's business model, partly because there hasn't been as much investigation done, but their wages are above local average in my area, and their HR models are the Fortune 500 "Best Employers" list.

If price is way more important than quality or interaction, you're likely to have other maladjustments due to a skewed priority tree.