#trumpknew

[bralbovsky]

So, if there was a conspiracy to commit murder (successful) and you knew about it, you are absolutely an accessory, unless you attempted to call the police.
If you later found out about this conspiracy, how long or how deep into the knowledge of this murder would you have to go before you were an accessory after the fact? How many days, weeks, months could go by wherein you had a reasonable chance to alert the authorities, and still stay clean? Would it matter if you benefited from the murder?

I believe impeachment is inevitable. Here's my dilemma: how big is the tumor? How many have to go in order to really clear the decks and start with what we might say is a "clean" slate (cognizant that it's politics, and there's no such thing)
The heads of the intelligence committees already know. Ryan already knows. Comey knows. If Pence truly didn't know before, he sure as hell knows now. (Missed his chance, in my view).
It's bad and getting worse.

The direction of the country, policies that we're actually discussing, aren't even a part of this. That's a separate thread. (How long do you wait before you yank the drunk out of the driver's seat?)

[Phoebe]

Speaking of which, I've seen a dozen fevered theories about why Ivanka is moving in to her own West Wing office but not my own fever theory, which is that he's exhibiting some early signs of dementia and her job is to deal with any potential fallout of that. She has been not only playing the first lady role, but also sticking physically close to him in situations where one is surprised she was present (occasionally when the real first lady is present too). It's also possible that, unable to compute the ethics violations created by this state of affairs, my brain spat back a theory that makes sense of this in the most palatable possible manner. Because if that really is happening, I would be praying to God almighty that Ivanka never leaves his elbow.

[bralbovsky]

So Nixon had his 18 minutes, and Trump had his 18 days.
Sadly, the orders of magnitude are consistent with how bad this is. The question is: can you fire or bully your way out of an impeachment or indictment?

I began a list of publicly known facts/events, but to properly source them I'd have to wait for school to be done.

Comey may be guilty of prosecutorial malpractice (The first rule of the Grand Jury is that you don't talk about The Grand Jury), but he has been a good soldier for Trump up to now. We'll see how betrayed he feels.

[Phoebe]

Not a lawyer and haven't talked to the lawyer here yet, but I gather there are things Comey could do in the courts in response, given that Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation and may also be a target of it. CNN and the NYT also reported Comey has already empaneled several grand juries.

[Phoebe]

"We don't need a special prosecutor. We need an Auror." - Joss Whedon

OK I give up, you big jerk, I love you.

[Phoebe]

So, this moment seems pretty crucial for democracy. As Brownstein said, if there is no bipartisan pushback even to this brazen act, "his appetite for shattering democratic constraints is only likely to grow."

[Mike]

Seriously, what does it take? Where's the line in the sand? How egregious does the action have to be before the GOP leadership finally decides that maybe some investigation is warranted?

[FlameBlade]

What is that visit from Russia? Why is Russia media allowed in when US media isn't? What are the odds that the office is bugged? Pretty good, when you consider Ukraine guy came by not much later.

[Phoebe]

Welllllllllll now's the moment! Now or never. If the GOP Senators don't do something now that Trump is not only firing the FBI chief, but personally threatening him afterward, we are well and truly fucked and the rule of law is fundamentally undermined. If he gets away with this, what boundary line exactly is the GOP prepared to stop at? Given their total reluctance to say or do anything, the public can only assume that the ENTIRE PARTY is just as compromised and criminally implicated as all the supposedly wild conspiracy theorists are saying. It's really damn scary when everything the supposedly wild conspiracy theorists are saying is coming true. I feel like we have actually had a Russian coup of some sort and we are now ruled by unknown oligarchs and a criminal conspiracy. I hope that the people who actually support the rule of law by force, when it comes to that, are 100% behind the Constitution and are NOT okay with political leaders meddling with law enforcement however it suits their ends.

Anyway, this is the moment. If it's not this, John McCain and Ben Sasse and Richard Burr and the rest of you, what's the moment? When you all get fired it will be a bit too late to act.

[Mike]

It's more than all that. Trump said flat out in an interview with NBC News that firing Comey was entirely his own idea and that he did it in an attempt to "make this whole Russia thing go away." Plus, he's too self-absorbed clueless to realize why he shouldn't say things like that out loud. Hopefully those words will be read back to hom in an official hearing.

[Stan]

[Phoebe]

Yes, he said - after fifteen different bullshit stories came out through spokespeople and from him - that he did it because of the investigation:

"When I decided to just do it [fire Comey], I said to myself, I said, you know, this Russian thing with Trump and Russia … is a made up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election."

And then he tweeted a threat this morning against Comey:

"James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press"

Even if every single thing he or his campaign have been accused of is false, THIS ALONE should be reason enough to act, Congress.

[FlameBlade]

http://wapo.st/2pEo7Fb

For explanation why congress is not moving at all.

Really hope they get swept out...except that they just set up election fraud study committee that includes Kris Kobach. Read: How to suppress votes.

At this point, hoping that Roberts and Kennedy has some sense to move us away from all of that.

[Phoebe]

People should be avoiding Fifth Avenue in NYC now just in case. And we know even that might not be enough.

My hot take, which oddly I see reflected nowhere (clearly I need to dig deeper into the conspiracist websites), is that he didn't leak because he's dumb or a braggart but because he intended to. Why did they suddenly bar our press from the meeting, anyway? The list of who was in the room that one sees on e.g. CNN also has to be false, flat out. You're telling us, for starters, that the Secret Service let POTUS in a room unattended, with reps of a govt recently famous for its assassinations? Nahhh. Anyway, sometimes foolishness or accident is the best explanation - Lord knows I'm a walking example - but sometimes Occam says, this thing was intended.

Or for all we know Trump actually has serious mental issues and Ivanka is leaking this stuff to get him removed from office as painlessly and quickly as possible, because she knows he will never go willingly and is being manipulated by dangerous people. That makes about as much sense as what is real, so... Praying the Israeli agent, or whoever, survives this. Maybe the whole thing is a plot. It's great to be sooo in the dark, in a democracy. Kind of like work right now, lol. But I digress.

[FlameBlade]

You really need ro wait for your hot takes to become lukewarm take.

Because you are quickly getting into conspiracy theory territory. I highly recommend you start follow lawfare blog because they will tell what to expect in legal framework, and what is required for a number of things to happen. This way, it will help you temper your expectations.

That out of the way, Russia marching into Oval Office are for several reasons. They know how to get information out of Trump simply by appealing to his ego. Probably while TASS set up bugs in the office. Might be all that is necessary to cause doubt.

Ultimately, it is fairly simple...ego and greed.

[Stan]

[Phoebe]

I do read Lawfare and (rarely) masquerade as a serious person. The reason I mentioned conspiracy websites above was to make fun of myself. However, the "he leaked on purpose" angle isn't idle speculation, and Putin's purposefully provoking offer today to share a transcript with Congress raises eyebrows. Does he want Trump impeached now? Suppose the wild idea is true that there's a Russian money laundering conspiracy. President Pence might be better for those involved. Adjust tin foil accordingly.

[Phoebe]

"No leaks...This is how we know we're a real family here."

Wow, Speaker Ryan. Your closest allies are saying Trump is paid off by Russia and your main concern is to squelch leaks about it from your fam? How does our powerful, beautiful democracy end up with a craven, Atlas Shrugged worshipping bro-clown as third in line to the Presidency? This is the party "intellectual".

Anyway, the craziest conspiracy theories suddenly got a jolt of reasonability. Especially when Ryan and McCarthy's spokesmen lied about this until the WaPo indicated access to an actual tape of the remarks. Wonder who taped them. Is this the "don't knock down the FBI director unless you're going to knock him out" lesson being learned the hard way, or is someone else pulling strings here? Why? The more comes to light, the more in the dark we citizens are left.