Re: Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping

2020-10-12T10:14:26-06:00

Additional facts improved resolution of this dilemma; it became possible to pin down exactly what was known and not known to all the parties involved. I think the points you raise are quite important: it is better to exit the situation than to engage in any harm; things done in sleep are innocent, but absent any reason to disbelieve the accounts of the actions, one should begin by assuming these accounts are legit and may require resolution.

Statistics: Posted by Phoebe — Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:14 am

Re: Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping

2020-10-11T21:29:13-06:00

Harm, even well-intentioned harm, is off the table.
As the elbowee, if it can't be stopped easily, a nudge, a pillow adjustment, I'm gone, possibly taking blankets with. In the first place, the effort will not help my sleep, and fighting with elbows or kicking that is persistent and unintentional is best avoided rather than solved in the darkness.

If I am the unconscious aggressor, my hope is that harm is off the table. Losing my blankets and my partner should be convincing enough that something is up.

Personally, sleep is sacred, except for morning waking, no violence or malicious tricks allowed. To do so creates an antagonistic relationship that will erode trust and can only end in tears. Boy Scouts taught me that. Someone who would abuse you in your sleep is not a member of your tribe but an enemy.

I expect I would believe whatever account there is, but actions during sleep are innocent. I would not hold a sleeping person responsible, but definitely would hold a wakeful person responsible, with some latitude for being rudely awakened.

Statistics: Posted by bralbovsky — Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:29 pm

Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping

2020-10-10T13:47:28-06:00

Okay THINKERS, I need help with an Ethics Dilemma. I do want the perspective of the gals, but in particular I am seeking to counterbalance that by getting some perspective from the guys, because you know what it's like to be a guy who sleeps and has other powers.

In what way should people be accountable for things they do in their sleep, and how should they react when someone attempts to describe their actions and/or request some form of accountability?

Now, some people have sleep disorders, like the ones who unconsciously raid the fridge at night. All you can do is lock the fridge. And they might not believe you at first, but persuaded that this is happening, they would reasonably appreciate your efforts to lock the fridge.

Some people snore - I am one of them! If you find out you are snoring, both for your own health and for the health of others, you want to do something about it. You have an obligation to do this if you are affecting the sleep of other people. People are entitled to do things to you while you are sleeping, such as roll you over onto your side to prevent snoring, gently shove you awake or take other such limited physical measures as are needed to wake you. I.e. it would be excessive to be smacking people in the face to wake them, unless there was literally no other gentler measure possible. Normally it's enough to jostle people a bit and they wake, and if they're snoring, they shouldn't object to this treatment.

Here is another premise necessary for the discussion: physical intervention that touches/affects another person's body while they sleep is all similar, insofar as you are doing something to them over which they have no control, that physically affects their body. So it doesn't really matter if you're tapping a finger on them, or blowing in their face, or trying to roll them over or throw their limbs off you in the night, because in all cases you are taking a physical action that affects the person's physical body. Agreed? These actions then differ in terms of their severity, aggressiveness, and effects - i.e. tapping someone gently on the shoulder might be less severe than spraying a water bottle in their face; flinging someone's limb back off your side of the bed and onto theirs is less aggressive than punching them in the arm, etc.

So: here is the scenario of the ethical dilemma, and it is up to you to judge what is appropriate.
Suppose that you are asleep, and you are wakened by someone elbowing you repeatedly in the head. It's another adult, not a kid or something that is easily endured until you can reposition them. It hurts, this being elbowed in the head.

PART ONE:
What is ethical for you to do, knowing that the person is asleep?
Should you simply remove yourself from your bed, and let the elbower lie?
Do you attempt to wake the person? If you fail, should you scream loudly enough to wake other people asleep in the house, on the theory that this will wake the person without further intervention? May you spritz the person with water? Physically shake them awake?
Are you permitted to attempt to push the elbow away? Here are some other physical interventions open to you: attempt to extract the arm such that it is repositioned in a harmless fashion. Place a pillow barrier between yourself and the offending elbow, so that it doesn't hurt to be elbowed. Slap the elbow in hopes of waking the offender. Physically roll the person over. Punch them in the arm in hopes of waking them. Etc?

PART TWO:
If you are awoken by any of the above methods of intervention, because you are elbowing someone, what sort of response is ethical? Should you roll over and go back to sleep? Should you threaten the person with similar or more intense violence than they have used to stop you from elbowing? Should you physically intervene to stop the person from stopping your elbowing? In what way would this be permitted?

PART THREE:
If you wake in the morning and are told about this scenario, and then told that you were elbowing someone during the night, what sort of response is appropriate? Should you deny the possibility of this occurring? Depending on what was done to stop you from elbowing, how much blame are you entitled to assign to the other party for physically intervening to stop you from elbowing them? None/a little/a lot - does it depend on what exactly they did to stop you? How angry should you be at the person who was elbowed, and why?

PART FOUR: If you are being elbowed in the night by a person who was asleep while they did it, and never woke despite your efforts to stop them from elbowing you, how should you respond to them once they are awake and aware of their actions? Should you hold them responsible in any way for their actions during sleep, or only what they do and say after they wake? If the person denies any responsibility for harming you in any way, should you accept this with no further ado? If the person becomes angry with you for attempting to stop them from elbowing you, how would you respond?

Statistics: Posted by Phoebe — Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:47 pm

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Re: Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping

Re: Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping

Ethics Dilemma: While You Were Sleeping