Y'all, I'm going to start the John Oates memoir, Change of Seasons, today on audiobook. Narrated by John Oates and some other dude (which I assume means Oates does the intro and the other guy does the rest, but who knows).
I'm VERY excited for this, and will be documenting my experience here in this thread. Because I know I can't be the only one that is fascinated by this 5'4" Italian kid from New York that dominated the air waves for almost a decade. Right? RIGHT?
Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
This is perfect. I'm not invested enough to actually add it to my very long reading list but I'm very curious. They made so many things that are easy to listen to on the radio.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Hall and Oates were at their biggest around the time I was starting to form my own tastes in music. So of course I thought they sucked, that they were old fashioned, etc. Now I quite like some of their songs. And I kind of forget how hugely popular they were for several years.
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Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I don't have time for a full report because I have an all-day depo. But I want to make notes for myself so I don't forget for a full write up tonight: voice/car/grandma/mundane/7:40/DH&JO/World Wildlife Organization
Honestly, I'm fascinated by this guy.
Honestly, I'm fascinated by this guy.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Y'all, I have to post about this book here because my wife told me that I'm no longer allowed to talk to her about John Oates.
As you read this, you're going to think that I'm doing a bit- that I'm putting on this false enthusiasm for John Oates because it's so random that I'm reading his memoir. I want you to know that everything I'm posting is 100% sincere. I'm obsessed with John Oates right now.
And why wouldn't I be? He's 5'4". He's as tall as my 12 year old. I played six H&O videos for my kids last night while we were bullshitting about various stuff and I kept pointing at Oates and going, "Him! That guy! He's as tall as Jack! And was 1/2 of the hottest duo for 5 years in the 80s!" My kids think I'm stupid, but that's not the point.
My interest in this is that Oates has always been the Teller of Hall & Oates for me. Darryl Hall was the tall, "good looking," blond dude that was the lead singer. And John Oates was the guitar player who harmonized and sang back up. When I remember interviews, I remember them being with Hall and not remembering anything Oates ever said. But as I rewatched these videos, it's clear to me that Oates understands how people view him in the duo. And he's clearly having fun with it. There's something truly delightful watching this guy dance and jump around in these videos, winking at the camera the entire time, like he's saying, "Yeah. I get it, but guess what? I'm the shit." And he really is.
But those are my expectations going into it. I need to actually start talking about the book itself.
As you read this, you're going to think that I'm doing a bit- that I'm putting on this false enthusiasm for John Oates because it's so random that I'm reading his memoir. I want you to know that everything I'm posting is 100% sincere. I'm obsessed with John Oates right now.
And why wouldn't I be? He's 5'4". He's as tall as my 12 year old. I played six H&O videos for my kids last night while we were bullshitting about various stuff and I kept pointing at Oates and going, "Him! That guy! He's as tall as Jack! And was 1/2 of the hottest duo for 5 years in the 80s!" My kids think I'm stupid, but that's not the point.
My interest in this is that Oates has always been the Teller of Hall & Oates for me. Darryl Hall was the tall, "good looking," blond dude that was the lead singer. And John Oates was the guitar player who harmonized and sang back up. When I remember interviews, I remember them being with Hall and not remembering anything Oates ever said. But as I rewatched these videos, it's clear to me that Oates understands how people view him in the duo. And he's clearly having fun with it. There's something truly delightful watching this guy dance and jump around in these videos, winking at the camera the entire time, like he's saying, "Yeah. I get it, but guess what? I'm the shit." And he really is.
But those are my expectations going into it. I need to actually start talking about the book itself.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
To start, Oates narrates most of the book. And he doesn't sound like you'd think. Knowing he's a smaller guy, I thought he'd have a higher pitched voice. But I also forgot he's a professional acclaimed singer. So His voice is actually very smooth, deeper than you'd guess and pleasant to listen to. He has a slight lisp which he tries to cover, but it comes out throughout his reading.
He points out at the very beginning that the reader should go look at H&O's album covers. He wants people to realize that the albums never referred to themselves as "Hall & Oates" but always "Darryl Hall & John Oates." And even though by 1985 they had seven platinum records and over 40 million sold, this distinction was important because they weren't a group-- they were a duo. They were a partnership. They were best friends. That relationship outlasted multiple marriages and decades of time and is still strong today. It was pretty cool to hear that.
So I posted that John Oates acted in these videos like he was the shit, kind of "in on the joke" that Hall was always front and center. But here's the thing: He was the shit. It wasn't an ironic act he was putting on. It was him, but it also was a self awareness that the audience viewed him differently. And he reveled in it.
To be clear, John Oates was the shit from the moment he was born. He was the first Italian grandson to an extended Italian family in a very-Italian neighborhood in NYC. Born in 1948, from the time he was two, he was performing and singing to his Italian family, including "showcases" he's do for family dinners every week. There are probably a lot of people that can relate to this, but what Oates had going for him was this- he has a ton of musical talent. So that's what his folks always encouraged and focused on with him.
Early on in his childhood they moved to New Wales, Pennsylvania, where he left his Italian immigrant neighborhood to Mennonite country dominated by German and Dutch white folks. While it was a culture shock, he was kind of allowed to run wild in the rural setting and that's where he really became independent. He talks about getting his first car which actually had a radio in it (which was novel back then), and its surprising how mundane his upbringing was. He was clearly a musical protege, but he also had interests like you'd expect of a Pennsylvania teenaged boy: he loves (I mean LOVES) car racing, and he was a varsity wrestler for the last three years of highschool (which he attributes to learning how to use his diminutive height to his advantage- he was a pretty well-regarded wrestler).
He always focused on music, including his first band, The Masters, which was a white-boy, motown group that primarily did covers. While he was performing with the Masters, they cut a record and actually got some air play and invitations to play at local radio promotions. On that circuit is where he met Darryl Hall, who was with a Temptations cover band called the Temptones. Both had a taste of fame, but were minor local acts in Philly.
During this time he talks about watching all the local acts at the big Philly show houses. He lists a lot of motown and R&B stars whose names I recognized but can't remember now. But he talked about things like watching a 13-year-old Stevie Wonder perform Fingertips, or see Sly and the Family Stone when no one really knew who they were. It was cool to hear about the acts, but it was also cool because he realized, in the early to mid 60s, that he was bearing witness to a revolution in music.
Eventually two of the band members quit the Masters to join the Air Force as a way to avoid being drafted into the Army for Vietnam. Oates's plan was to stay in college, even though he was constantly on the verge of flunking out, and hope the war would end before he left school. At this same time, the rhythm section of the Temptones left, and Hall asked Oates to join the band to play guitar and sing back up. And that's when they duo first joined and played together- in a Temptations cover band in Philly.
He points out at the very beginning that the reader should go look at H&O's album covers. He wants people to realize that the albums never referred to themselves as "Hall & Oates" but always "Darryl Hall & John Oates." And even though by 1985 they had seven platinum records and over 40 million sold, this distinction was important because they weren't a group-- they were a duo. They were a partnership. They were best friends. That relationship outlasted multiple marriages and decades of time and is still strong today. It was pretty cool to hear that.
So I posted that John Oates acted in these videos like he was the shit, kind of "in on the joke" that Hall was always front and center. But here's the thing: He was the shit. It wasn't an ironic act he was putting on. It was him, but it also was a self awareness that the audience viewed him differently. And he reveled in it.
To be clear, John Oates was the shit from the moment he was born. He was the first Italian grandson to an extended Italian family in a very-Italian neighborhood in NYC. Born in 1948, from the time he was two, he was performing and singing to his Italian family, including "showcases" he's do for family dinners every week. There are probably a lot of people that can relate to this, but what Oates had going for him was this- he has a ton of musical talent. So that's what his folks always encouraged and focused on with him.
Early on in his childhood they moved to New Wales, Pennsylvania, where he left his Italian immigrant neighborhood to Mennonite country dominated by German and Dutch white folks. While it was a culture shock, he was kind of allowed to run wild in the rural setting and that's where he really became independent. He talks about getting his first car which actually had a radio in it (which was novel back then), and its surprising how mundane his upbringing was. He was clearly a musical protege, but he also had interests like you'd expect of a Pennsylvania teenaged boy: he loves (I mean LOVES) car racing, and he was a varsity wrestler for the last three years of highschool (which he attributes to learning how to use his diminutive height to his advantage- he was a pretty well-regarded wrestler).
He always focused on music, including his first band, The Masters, which was a white-boy, motown group that primarily did covers. While he was performing with the Masters, they cut a record and actually got some air play and invitations to play at local radio promotions. On that circuit is where he met Darryl Hall, who was with a Temptations cover band called the Temptones. Both had a taste of fame, but were minor local acts in Philly.
During this time he talks about watching all the local acts at the big Philly show houses. He lists a lot of motown and R&B stars whose names I recognized but can't remember now. But he talked about things like watching a 13-year-old Stevie Wonder perform Fingertips, or see Sly and the Family Stone when no one really knew who they were. It was cool to hear about the acts, but it was also cool because he realized, in the early to mid 60s, that he was bearing witness to a revolution in music.
Eventually two of the band members quit the Masters to join the Air Force as a way to avoid being drafted into the Army for Vietnam. Oates's plan was to stay in college, even though he was constantly on the verge of flunking out, and hope the war would end before he left school. At this same time, the rhythm section of the Temptones left, and Hall asked Oates to join the band to play guitar and sing back up. And that's when they duo first joined and played together- in a Temptations cover band in Philly.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Does he ever describe himself and Hall as "blue-eyed soul?" Don't know if that term came later, or was used as an insult, so I'd be curious to hear if uses it.
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Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
He hasn't yet- and it will be telling if he doesn't. But he hasn't really gotten to him and Darryl other than in the Temptones.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So by 1969 the Temptones apparently broke up (the story is vague or I missed it) and Oates bummed around Europe for several months being a hippie. When he returned, he found that the place he'd been crashing had the locks changed and he had no where to stay. So he went to his friend, Darryl Hall's pad and crashed there with him and his girlfriend. During this time he continued to teach guitar and go to college to avoid the draft.
In '69 he was asked to join a group called Valentine, which was a rock and roll group front by Frank Stallone, Sly Stallone's brother. Oates played guitar and sang back up, but eventually became the co-lead singer. This apparently didn't sit well with Frank and Oates realized his days with Valentine (which had grown some smallish notoriety greater than anything Oates had experienced yet) were numbered. So he left the group.
He talks about experimenting with drugs, mushrooms and dropping acid. He talks about meeting John Denver in Aspen before he was famous and had just sold his first song to Peter Paul and Mary (Leaving on a Jet Plane). He talks about meeting Doc Watson (and his son Merle) in a really touching story about getting to "pick some bars" with the legend.
Then there's a weird diatribe against the Vietnam War. And at first it seems out of place, but Oates has been upfront about his liberal and anti-war views before this. But then he explains that one of his best friends from high school, Ronnie (who he was co-captains with on the varsity wrestling team), had joined the marines and been killed by a claymore mine in Vietnam. Oates then retells a very moving story about being asked to sing at Ronnie's funeral, and it's quite sad and emblematic of the resentment that had built up against the Vietnam War. Suddenly the diatribe made sense. This is just a small example of how John Oates has something to say. And even though he's not the first person to say it, it's still powerful and important to listen to.
In '69 he was asked to join a group called Valentine, which was a rock and roll group front by Frank Stallone, Sly Stallone's brother. Oates played guitar and sang back up, but eventually became the co-lead singer. This apparently didn't sit well with Frank and Oates realized his days with Valentine (which had grown some smallish notoriety greater than anything Oates had experienced yet) were numbered. So he left the group.
He talks about experimenting with drugs, mushrooms and dropping acid. He talks about meeting John Denver in Aspen before he was famous and had just sold his first song to Peter Paul and Mary (Leaving on a Jet Plane). He talks about meeting Doc Watson (and his son Merle) in a really touching story about getting to "pick some bars" with the legend.
Then there's a weird diatribe against the Vietnam War. And at first it seems out of place, but Oates has been upfront about his liberal and anti-war views before this. But then he explains that one of his best friends from high school, Ronnie (who he was co-captains with on the varsity wrestling team), had joined the marines and been killed by a claymore mine in Vietnam. Oates then retells a very moving story about being asked to sing at Ronnie's funeral, and it's quite sad and emblematic of the resentment that had built up against the Vietnam War. Suddenly the diatribe made sense. This is just a small example of how John Oates has something to say. And even though he's not the first person to say it, it's still powerful and important to listen to.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I'm glad you are reporting on this book because I totally would like to read it, but unlikely it would actually happen, so now it's happening! In a form I can digest quickly but enjoy fully! It took me a moment to realize that you meant his speaking voice as opposed to his literary voice as a writer. He's an interesting person. Good story so far!
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
He dodged the draft. And he has little shame about it. It explains why he went to great lengths to discuss his moral objection to the Vietnam War. In a way, it was refreshing to hear him talk about it so honestly, but it was a bit of a lecture on how awful the war was (although I agreed with everything he said).
After getting into a motorcycle accident when a car ran a red light, Oates won a $500 settlement, which in 1970 seemed like a fortune to a young hippie. He used the money to backpack across Europe. As a side note, I understand that memoirs don't have to be told in chronological order, but this one jumps around within tight time periods and it makes it a little confusing. It's a minor quibble, though, because it's the stories that are important, not the order that they occurred in.
So I'm in the middle of it now, but he goes into quite a bit of detail about bumming across Europe with nothing but his guitar and a backpack. To be honest, there's nothing really deep being discussed in this section, but it is amusing to hear John Oates describe his Summer of '70 hippie experience in Europe, which has to be the quintessential essence of every hippie's "backpack across Europe" story. Is it anything ground breaking or novel? No. But it is delightful to imagine an unknown Oates having his mind blown by the history and cultures he's never experienced before.
After getting into a motorcycle accident when a car ran a red light, Oates won a $500 settlement, which in 1970 seemed like a fortune to a young hippie. He used the money to backpack across Europe. As a side note, I understand that memoirs don't have to be told in chronological order, but this one jumps around within tight time periods and it makes it a little confusing. It's a minor quibble, though, because it's the stories that are important, not the order that they occurred in.
So I'm in the middle of it now, but he goes into quite a bit of detail about bumming across Europe with nothing but his guitar and a backpack. To be honest, there's nothing really deep being discussed in this section, but it is amusing to hear John Oates describe his Summer of '70 hippie experience in Europe, which has to be the quintessential essence of every hippie's "backpack across Europe" story. Is it anything ground breaking or novel? No. But it is delightful to imagine an unknown Oates having his mind blown by the history and cultures he's never experienced before.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
When Oates returned from Europe is when he found that his old roomates had failed to pay rent and had been evicted. Having no place to live, he turned to his friend Daryl Hall (his name at the time was actually Daryl Hohl, but would change it later when they got famous). Daryl was living with his girlfriend Sarah (of Sarah Smiles fame) and they welcomed Oates with open arms. Living together in Philly, the wrote music, smoked weed and generally acting like hippies and playing small gigs. They got jobs working for a small time record company, which essentially made money by being a leech- the owner would sign a bunch of up and coming Philly artists, paid them nothing (Oates said he was making $25 a week) and wait until they got signed by big labels to force a large buy out for himself. This is exactly what happened to the duo.
During this time they met a young Tommy Mottola who listened to their music and insisted on being their manager. Through Tommy they started meeting with other labels and auditioning for big record companies. They were flown out to LA for a bunch of "meet and greets" and eventually auditioned for one of the big wigs at Atlantic Records, who loved them, offered them a deal, and wanted to personally produce their music. The problem, however, was that their old record label needed to be handled.
One hash-fueled night, the duo decided that they were going to go threaten the old label owner and demand he rip up their contract. They got a friend who was huge and intimidating to serve as their "one man goon squad." They marched in to the guy's office, made some testosterone laden threats and the owner looked up at the goon and said, "And who's this guy?" The muscle said, "This is the guy that's going to show you how this goes down!" Then the muscle jumped over the desk and started assaulting the owner. Oates and Daryl ripped the muscle off the owner and all three jetted. Too scared to go home, they made a panicky call to Mattola, who put them on a train to New York and put them up. Within weeks, a deal was made with the old owner, and Daryl Hall and John Oates were signed with Atlantic Records.
During this time they met a young Tommy Mottola who listened to their music and insisted on being their manager. Through Tommy they started meeting with other labels and auditioning for big record companies. They were flown out to LA for a bunch of "meet and greets" and eventually auditioned for one of the big wigs at Atlantic Records, who loved them, offered them a deal, and wanted to personally produce their music. The problem, however, was that their old record label needed to be handled.
One hash-fueled night, the duo decided that they were going to go threaten the old label owner and demand he rip up their contract. They got a friend who was huge and intimidating to serve as their "one man goon squad." They marched in to the guy's office, made some testosterone laden threats and the owner looked up at the goon and said, "And who's this guy?" The muscle said, "This is the guy that's going to show you how this goes down!" Then the muscle jumped over the desk and started assaulting the owner. Oates and Daryl ripped the muscle off the owner and all three jetted. Too scared to go home, they made a panicky call to Mattola, who put them on a train to New York and put them up. Within weeks, a deal was made with the old owner, and Daryl Hall and John Oates were signed with Atlantic Records.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Whoa! I did not imagine that the beginnings of Hall & Oates were so violent!
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So I don't want this to take an inordinate amount of time, but I've changed the way I'm listening to the book. The book didn't spend much time talking about the recording process for their first album, Whole Oats. But then it goes into great detail about recording their second album, Abandoned Luncheonette. So I decided that after I read that section of the book, I'd go on Spotify and listen to the album, which I did and I'll describe below. But from now on, if there's indepth discussion of writing or recording a song or album, I'm going to listen to it after the section of the book is over.
Like I said, Oates doesn't go into great detail about the recording process of Whole Oats. He mostly talks about how they recorded the best of the songs that they'd already written and been performing before signing with Atlantic. What he does discuss, though, is being tour warriors crossing the country in an old car and van and performing at all sorts of dives and events. There's a lot of name dropping, some I recognized and some I didn't. He has a cool story about playing a show with Bruce Springsteen when he was as unfamous as they were (this was 1971). There's a great story about playing at a bar packed with Hell's Angels. They almost ditched the show, thinking their "breezy folk music" would get their asses beaten, but then it turned out that they LOVED them and ended up buying them drinks and smoking hash with them all night.
Oates then turns to the recording of their second album, Abandoned Luncheonette. And he really gets into the details of it. There's a lot of "giving credit" to the session players-- naming them and talking about how brilliant they were/are. But there's also this granular detail he goes into about how they modded the trumpet solo in one song, or how they decided to strip down another to just be Daryl's vocals, the grand piano and a flugelhorn. It's really cool to hear the muscian nerding out on the music. He's a guitar fetish guy so there's a lot of talk about that. But the sincerity and enthusiasm is infectious. He tells his inspiration for writing the chorus to their breakout hit, She's Gone: it turns out he met a spacy hippie chick at a restaurant and they set up a second date. As he waited for her to show up at his place for the date, he was noodling with a melody on his guitar. At the hour 3 mark, he realized he'd been stood up and wrote the well-known chorus, "She's Gone." Daryl came home shortly after that and they fleshed out the whole song in about an hour. But he's got stories like that for half the songs on the album, and they're all kind of cool like that.
So he got done talking about the recording process and that's when I sat down and listened to the album. And here's the deal: it sounds like the quintessential 70s easy listening material. It's got that "smooth jazz" breezy feel to it and Daryl's vocals are kind of the perfect complement to the style. But once you hear about the technical tweaks and inspirations they used to write these songs, you really have a deeper appreciation for them. "Oh, yeah! They're singing this together in different octaves!" or "Oh shit, that really is a five-string electric violin!" It's really a great experience.
And there really are some great songs on the album, even if you're not into the style of music (which I'm not). But to be clear, when you listen to it, it's obvious that there's a smash hit on the album and it's She's Gone. That song really stands head and shoulders above the rest. I'm a fan of the 80s Hall and Oates and wasn't really into the early stuff- I was 1 when Abandoned Luncheonette was released. But She's Gone is just such a good song. Listening to the kind of haunted, pleading of Daryl Hall's vocals with the layers of instruments and background vocals. It's really beautiful.
Like I said, Oates doesn't go into great detail about the recording process of Whole Oats. He mostly talks about how they recorded the best of the songs that they'd already written and been performing before signing with Atlantic. What he does discuss, though, is being tour warriors crossing the country in an old car and van and performing at all sorts of dives and events. There's a lot of name dropping, some I recognized and some I didn't. He has a cool story about playing a show with Bruce Springsteen when he was as unfamous as they were (this was 1971). There's a great story about playing at a bar packed with Hell's Angels. They almost ditched the show, thinking their "breezy folk music" would get their asses beaten, but then it turned out that they LOVED them and ended up buying them drinks and smoking hash with them all night.
Oates then turns to the recording of their second album, Abandoned Luncheonette. And he really gets into the details of it. There's a lot of "giving credit" to the session players-- naming them and talking about how brilliant they were/are. But there's also this granular detail he goes into about how they modded the trumpet solo in one song, or how they decided to strip down another to just be Daryl's vocals, the grand piano and a flugelhorn. It's really cool to hear the muscian nerding out on the music. He's a guitar fetish guy so there's a lot of talk about that. But the sincerity and enthusiasm is infectious. He tells his inspiration for writing the chorus to their breakout hit, She's Gone: it turns out he met a spacy hippie chick at a restaurant and they set up a second date. As he waited for her to show up at his place for the date, he was noodling with a melody on his guitar. At the hour 3 mark, he realized he'd been stood up and wrote the well-known chorus, "She's Gone." Daryl came home shortly after that and they fleshed out the whole song in about an hour. But he's got stories like that for half the songs on the album, and they're all kind of cool like that.
So he got done talking about the recording process and that's when I sat down and listened to the album. And here's the deal: it sounds like the quintessential 70s easy listening material. It's got that "smooth jazz" breezy feel to it and Daryl's vocals are kind of the perfect complement to the style. But once you hear about the technical tweaks and inspirations they used to write these songs, you really have a deeper appreciation for them. "Oh, yeah! They're singing this together in different octaves!" or "Oh shit, that really is a five-string electric violin!" It's really a great experience.
And there really are some great songs on the album, even if you're not into the style of music (which I'm not). But to be clear, when you listen to it, it's obvious that there's a smash hit on the album and it's She's Gone. That song really stands head and shoulders above the rest. I'm a fan of the 80s Hall and Oates and wasn't really into the early stuff- I was 1 when Abandoned Luncheonette was released. But She's Gone is just such a good song. Listening to the kind of haunted, pleading of Daryl Hall's vocals with the layers of instruments and background vocals. It's really beautiful.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Whole Oats
She's Gone is nice, yeahhhh! It's kind of hilarious that it's about a person he dated one time and failed to date the second time, when you assume it's some kind of big relationship thing, lol!
She's Gone is nice, yeahhhh! It's kind of hilarious that it's about a person he dated one time and failed to date the second time, when you assume it's some kind of big relationship thing, lol!
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So he talks a lot about this. They made a concerted effort to make their song lyrics, even if they were about a specific person, broad enough to make sure it was relatable to anyone.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Anyone except the people who share a toothbrush or never even got to the point of toothbrush relevance! 
But seriously I think their songs do have this universal appeal and it's interesting that they put some intention behind it.
But seriously I think their songs do have this universal appeal and it's interesting that they put some intention behind it.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So true.
One of the big changes in their music from the 70s to the 80s is the emphasis on performance, both live and in the new medium of videos. He’s hinted at their focus and intentional creative changes with this emphasis, but I’m not really to that part yet. And while he doesn’t call it “selling out” he does discuss it as an economic and broad focus to make something as broadly appealing as possible. He’s unashamed to admit that, while they wanted to make good music, they also wanted to be rock stars.But seriously I think their songs do have this universal appeal and it's interesting that they put some intention behind it.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
And why should they be ashamed? If it meant sacrificing the music it would be one thing, but they kept pushing out the catchy tunes. I like the BTS embraces this about themselves as well - if your goal is to bring joy and comfort to people through your music and you have a positive message of inclusion, the huge reach of popularity is a great thing.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
The feel I get from Oates on it is that they still had their signature sound (but he still hasn't said "Blue Eyed Soul") and he's proud of that. But he's also proud of the talent that comes into writing pop music. It's still hard work.Phoebe wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:01 pm And why should they be ashamed? If it meant sacrificing the music it would be one thing, but they kept pushing out the catchy tunes. I like the BTS embraces this about themselves as well - if your goal is to bring joy and comfort to people through your music and you have a positive message of inclusion, the huge reach of popularity is a great thing.
By the way- he loves talking about that toothbrush lyric. He mentions it three times.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So their third album for Atlantic was called War Babies, and it seems like he's not very proud of it. They wanted an edgier, more progressive rock sound, so they used this loose cannon producer (I can't remember his name) to experiment with them when they recorded it. I can tell he doesn't like it much because: (1) he does not go into any detail on the particular recordings; and (2) other than talking about how two songs were inspired (both by being on the road) he doesn't actually talk about what they did when they were writing or recording them. Also, he spoke about it very little.
So I listened to War Babies (mostly- I skipped tracks when I got bored of them) and I get it. It just sounds sloppy and amateurish. There's a lot of synthy electro wall of noise stuff, with the exception of a couple of songs, Daryl's voice is not forward enough. It's clear they were experimenting and, as Oates says, trying to reinvent themselves- but this was a failed experiment. It's just not a good album.
Instead of giving the cherished details of writing and recording the album, he talks about going on tour for it. They opened for Lou Reed on his tour, and without really saying it, apparently Lou Reed was a real dick. Him and his band "looked at the openers with disdain." And apparently he was so high on various drugs and alcohol, he could barely perform some nights- but that just made his crowd go crazier for him. He also tells a long winding story about a vacation in Jamaica that was kind of a random and not very interesting- it seemed shoehorned in.
Tommy Mottola decided they needed big money, so they had him negotiate their way out of their record contract so they could sign for even bigger money with RCA. Atlantic begrudgingly agreed, but made them agree that Atlantic could release a compilation album with tracks from their first three albums plus three original tunes. This album, titled No Goodbyes, would release on the heels of the release of their first album with RCA: Daryl Hall and John Oates a/k/a The Silver Album.
So I listened to War Babies (mostly- I skipped tracks when I got bored of them) and I get it. It just sounds sloppy and amateurish. There's a lot of synthy electro wall of noise stuff, with the exception of a couple of songs, Daryl's voice is not forward enough. It's clear they were experimenting and, as Oates says, trying to reinvent themselves- but this was a failed experiment. It's just not a good album.
Instead of giving the cherished details of writing and recording the album, he talks about going on tour for it. They opened for Lou Reed on his tour, and without really saying it, apparently Lou Reed was a real dick. Him and his band "looked at the openers with disdain." And apparently he was so high on various drugs and alcohol, he could barely perform some nights- but that just made his crowd go crazier for him. He also tells a long winding story about a vacation in Jamaica that was kind of a random and not very interesting- it seemed shoehorned in.
Tommy Mottola decided they needed big money, so they had him negotiate their way out of their record contract so they could sign for even bigger money with RCA. Atlantic begrudgingly agreed, but made them agree that Atlantic could release a compilation album with tracks from their first three albums plus three original tunes. This album, titled No Goodbyes, would release on the heels of the release of their first album with RCA: Daryl Hall and John Oates a/k/a The Silver Album.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I find myself genuinely looking forward to Kyle’s recaps.
Reel on a repeating loop
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
It's not just that we needed the audiobook autobiography of John Oates; it's that we needed Kyle's recap of the same. It's better than reading the book.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I apologize for the delay. My back went out on Saturday morning and I was unable to stand or sit without excruciating pain until yesterday. BUT I'M BACK! See what I did there?
He gave surprising little information about recording the Silver Album, but has a great story about how they made the Glam cover for the album (seriously, go google "Hall and Oates silver album cover"). The cover is them in full androgeny and surreal focus. It's very David Bowie, which isn't a surprise because they got the makeup artist that designed the Ziggy Stardust look for Bowie. What is weird, and Oates admits this, is that the cover does not match the music on the album, which is more back to the sound they recorded on Abandoned Luncheonette. BUT- I figured out why he told the Jamaica story- it's because they do a cover of a song he heard on that vacation (Soldering- which is exactly what you think it's about). Oates confesses that they did the cover before they even went into record the album. And listening to it, the album is easy going 70s, but not a lot of standouts, until...
So they released the Silver Album and it sold okay, but wasn't a breakthrough. RCA still had faith in them, though, and Tommy Motolla was still showering them with money. They went back into the studio to record their next album, Bigger Than Both of Us. After recording it (again, he doesn't go into detail) but before it's released, a Philly DJ started playing Sarah Smile from the Silver album and audiences were eating it up- calling over and over across the city to demand it be played. RCA released it as a single and it kind of blew up, propelling sales of both the single and the album.
Then they release Bigger Than Both of Us and Rich Girl is a smash hit- going number one on the Billboard charts. Listening to Bigger Than Both of Us, it's much closer to the 80s H&O than it is to the breezy 70s H&O. You hear their signature pop sound start to formulate. Particularly with Rich Girl. With the success of the album and song, they're both superfamous and living the life. I'm sure as a hint of what's to come, Oates talks about how the duo had no idea of how much money they were making and they didn't care- they'd ask Tommy for money and he'd give it to them; they'd ask Tommy for a car and he'd get it for them. It's like Tommy was an open checkbook, but Oates warns, "Maybe I should have paid closer attention to my money, but I was busy being a celebrity." It's a candid admission and part of the reason why I like Oates.
He has a long discussion of getting into car racing. Again, it's not my thing, but it's fun to listen to because it is REALLY his thing and he's passionate about it. He talks about cars the same way he talks about guitars, like they're beautiful holy relics.
Another interesting chapter involves him going to music lessons with a very famous 70 year old lady (who's name I'm forgetting). She had a six month sessions with him where he had tedious homework writing out scales and learning to play different instruments, but also learning the technicals of arrangement and music. This is where he finally understood harmonies and could visualize them on the page. What fascinated me about this part is that this is when they broke through, right? They had a platinum record. They were the "it" band. But Oates wasn't satisfied with that. The music is what was important. And he knew he hadn't mastered it. So he went through the tedious hard work and learned something. It was cool to hear that kind of dedication, even though he could have blown it all off and done drugs/women/parties like a stereotypical rock star.
He gave surprising little information about recording the Silver Album, but has a great story about how they made the Glam cover for the album (seriously, go google "Hall and Oates silver album cover"). The cover is them in full androgeny and surreal focus. It's very David Bowie, which isn't a surprise because they got the makeup artist that designed the Ziggy Stardust look for Bowie. What is weird, and Oates admits this, is that the cover does not match the music on the album, which is more back to the sound they recorded on Abandoned Luncheonette. BUT- I figured out why he told the Jamaica story- it's because they do a cover of a song he heard on that vacation (Soldering- which is exactly what you think it's about). Oates confesses that they did the cover before they even went into record the album. And listening to it, the album is easy going 70s, but not a lot of standouts, until...
So they released the Silver Album and it sold okay, but wasn't a breakthrough. RCA still had faith in them, though, and Tommy Motolla was still showering them with money. They went back into the studio to record their next album, Bigger Than Both of Us. After recording it (again, he doesn't go into detail) but before it's released, a Philly DJ started playing Sarah Smile from the Silver album and audiences were eating it up- calling over and over across the city to demand it be played. RCA released it as a single and it kind of blew up, propelling sales of both the single and the album.
Then they release Bigger Than Both of Us and Rich Girl is a smash hit- going number one on the Billboard charts. Listening to Bigger Than Both of Us, it's much closer to the 80s H&O than it is to the breezy 70s H&O. You hear their signature pop sound start to formulate. Particularly with Rich Girl. With the success of the album and song, they're both superfamous and living the life. I'm sure as a hint of what's to come, Oates talks about how the duo had no idea of how much money they were making and they didn't care- they'd ask Tommy for money and he'd give it to them; they'd ask Tommy for a car and he'd get it for them. It's like Tommy was an open checkbook, but Oates warns, "Maybe I should have paid closer attention to my money, but I was busy being a celebrity." It's a candid admission and part of the reason why I like Oates.
He has a long discussion of getting into car racing. Again, it's not my thing, but it's fun to listen to because it is REALLY his thing and he's passionate about it. He talks about cars the same way he talks about guitars, like they're beautiful holy relics.
Another interesting chapter involves him going to music lessons with a very famous 70 year old lady (who's name I'm forgetting). She had a six month sessions with him where he had tedious homework writing out scales and learning to play different instruments, but also learning the technicals of arrangement and music. This is where he finally understood harmonies and could visualize them on the page. What fascinated me about this part is that this is when they broke through, right? They had a platinum record. They were the "it" band. But Oates wasn't satisfied with that. The music is what was important. And he knew he hadn't mastered it. So he went through the tedious hard work and learned something. It was cool to hear that kind of dedication, even though he could have blown it all off and done drugs/women/parties like a stereotypical rock star.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
At this point of the book, Oates gleans over in summary fashion their next three albums: Beauty on a Back Street, Along the Red Ledge and X-Static. He doesn't talk about the recording process at all for these albums, and the only comment of note was that it was during this time that they decided they didn't need a producer-- they had been using David Foster, but he convinced them that they didn't need him. So I think X-Static was the first album they produced themselves.
But I can't figure out the motivation for not getting into these albums. Part of me thinks that they didn't produce any hits or sell too well, or maybe he's not as proud of the work on those albums. But part me also recognizes that H&O created A LOT of albums. X-Static was already their 8th album, and they still haven't even hit their peak in the 80s. They're last album was a Christmas album in 2006- their 18th(!) album. So I also think that it's likely that, due to editor and publisher restraints on the book, they cut out the parts about the albums that weren't huge hits. Or maybe Oates knew he couldn't go indepth into all 18, so he has to skim over a few.
This brings us to Voices, their 9th album, still with RCA at this point. He digs deep into this one. He talks about the Doo Wop homage, Diddy Doo Wop (I hear the Voices), and how they were inspired by a serial slasher on the NYC subways to write a song about people being inspired by hearing voices in their head from the music they listen to. He talks about how Kiss on My List, written with Hall's sister in law Janna, was recorded as a demo for her, but they liked it so much they put the demo they recorded on the album and it became a #1 single. Or You Make My Dreams, which they cowrote with Sarah Allen, was organically written and went to #5. And how they recorded a cover of You Lost that Lovin' Feeling as a respect to old-school soul music and then IT went to #1. This is the album that made them superstars. And not to give anything away (because I'm only halfway through it) but might be my favorite H&O album. But I'll discuss that next time after I'm done listening to the album.
But I can't figure out the motivation for not getting into these albums. Part of me thinks that they didn't produce any hits or sell too well, or maybe he's not as proud of the work on those albums. But part me also recognizes that H&O created A LOT of albums. X-Static was already their 8th album, and they still haven't even hit their peak in the 80s. They're last album was a Christmas album in 2006- their 18th(!) album. So I also think that it's likely that, due to editor and publisher restraints on the book, they cut out the parts about the albums that weren't huge hits. Or maybe Oates knew he couldn't go indepth into all 18, so he has to skim over a few.
This brings us to Voices, their 9th album, still with RCA at this point. He digs deep into this one. He talks about the Doo Wop homage, Diddy Doo Wop (I hear the Voices), and how they were inspired by a serial slasher on the NYC subways to write a song about people being inspired by hearing voices in their head from the music they listen to. He talks about how Kiss on My List, written with Hall's sister in law Janna, was recorded as a demo for her, but they liked it so much they put the demo they recorded on the album and it became a #1 single. Or You Make My Dreams, which they cowrote with Sarah Allen, was organically written and went to #5. And how they recorded a cover of You Lost that Lovin' Feeling as a respect to old-school soul music and then IT went to #1. This is the album that made them superstars. And not to give anything away (because I'm only halfway through it) but might be my favorite H&O album. But I'll discuss that next time after I'm done listening to the album.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
This thread reminds me of an ancient ritual.
When I was a kid, shows on TV happened at a specific time. If you didn't watch then, you missed out until it showed again much later. There was also this thing called cable TV but it was newish and not everyone had it, especially not the premium channels.
At lunch, kids who had seen something cool would describe it to others. The listeners would be distracted from usually lackluster school lunches while the teller would bask in the glory of imparting jokes and scenes to an audience.
I had thought that streaming had killed this ritual which as already in peril from VCRs and DVRs. Why listen to a description when you can just watch it anytime? But I see now that we need to revive this time honored practice. There are too many good books and shows competing for our time. Instead of spending a dozen hours on something, it would be more efficient in some cases to spend a dozen minutes getting the best parts from someone willing to spend the time so they can gain the glory of being a story reteller.
Bless you Kyle for blazing a new trail over an old trail.
When I was a kid, shows on TV happened at a specific time. If you didn't watch then, you missed out until it showed again much later. There was also this thing called cable TV but it was newish and not everyone had it, especially not the premium channels.
At lunch, kids who had seen something cool would describe it to others. The listeners would be distracted from usually lackluster school lunches while the teller would bask in the glory of imparting jokes and scenes to an audience.
I had thought that streaming had killed this ritual which as already in peril from VCRs and DVRs. Why listen to a description when you can just watch it anytime? But I see now that we need to revive this time honored practice. There are too many good books and shows competing for our time. Instead of spending a dozen hours on something, it would be more efficient in some cases to spend a dozen minutes getting the best parts from someone willing to spend the time so they can gain the glory of being a story reteller.
Bless you Kyle for blazing a new trail over an old trail.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Ha! Thanks!
I'm actually really glad I did this. I'm really coming to appreciate a band that I thought was just pop sell-outs. But the story is just fascinating to me.
I'm actually really glad I did this. I'm really coming to appreciate a band that I thought was just pop sell-outs. But the story is just fascinating to me.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Let me take a moment and suggest that all of you go listen to Voices right now. Do yourself a favor. I think this is in the top 5 of best pop albums for me. Seriously. And here's the thing-- Kiss on Your List? That might be my least favorite song on this album-- and it was a #1 smash hit!
Honestly, go listen to it. It's really great. The tracks you've never heard of are freaking fantastic. Some of the songs have a weird Talking Heads vibe to them. You've Lost that Lovin Feeling is just sooo good. And just as you're getting to the end of the album you hear Every Time You Go Away, and you think, "Whoa. I didn't know they were the ones that sang that." And you know what? They weren't! They wrote and recorded it for this album but didn't release it as a single. But a few years later, Paul Young covered it and it became a #1 smash hit! And Paul Young's version is a very close cover of the original- he didn't put his own spin on it. He just recorded it himself. And I actually prefer Daryl Hall's version- his vocals are just haunting and pained.
Y'all. This album is so good.
Honestly, go listen to it. It's really great. The tracks you've never heard of are freaking fantastic. Some of the songs have a weird Talking Heads vibe to them. You've Lost that Lovin Feeling is just sooo good. And just as you're getting to the end of the album you hear Every Time You Go Away, and you think, "Whoa. I didn't know they were the ones that sang that." And you know what? They weren't! They wrote and recorded it for this album but didn't release it as a single. But a few years later, Paul Young covered it and it became a #1 smash hit! And Paul Young's version is a very close cover of the original- he didn't put his own spin on it. He just recorded it himself. And I actually prefer Daryl Hall's version- his vocals are just haunting and pained.
Y'all. This album is so good.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Correction- I spoke earlier about how X-Static was the first album they self-produced and that was incorrect. That's the one where the transitioned from a producer to self-produced. Voices was their first album to be completely self-produced.
So now I'm at this weird part of the book where he really glosses over a lot of stuff during their biggest times in the early 80s. He acknowledges that it was a crazy time and how suddenly he and Daryl were suddenly known by everyone- including celebrities. There was no place that was off limits to them and they could get whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. He doesn't really go into detail about recording any of their three biggest albums (Private Eyes, H2O, and Big Bam Boom) but tells little anecdotes during this time.
He tells a really touching story about Tom "T-Bone" Wolk who was their bassist. I should start by saying that with Voices, H&O moved from using session musicians to using their touring band. This included T-Bone and... much to my surprise... GE Smith- who I knew as the long time band leader from Saturday Night Live. Anyhow, he talks about how they almost didn't hire T-Bone because he didn't look like a rock star: he was bald and soft spoken, but a monster on the bass. They were also auditioning another guy (who goes unnamed) who was also great on bass and looked like a rock star with awesome rock star hair. After they auditioned him, they were going to hire him when he said to Daryl, "Hey man, when I join the band, I think you should let me sing lead on Kiss on my List." Like a record scratch, no one said anything for an awkward thirty seconds. Then Daryl looked at Oates, while the rock star guy is there and said, "Let's hire the bald guy." T-Bone died suddenly from a heart attack in 2010 and Oates has a great story about them playing together at a H&O show two nights before and Wolk wordlessly giving Oates his guitar solo in the middle of the song. It was really cool and a nice tribute to a good friend.
Oates also relates the inspiration to Maneater when he was at a celebrity restaurant in NYC when an unnamed model (who was on the cover of all the magazines and extremely famous) came in, sat across from him and then started talking with the filthiest language he'd ever heard. As he sat in the conversation, he heard the lyric in his head, "She'll chew you up and spit you out." Classic Oates.
Finally he also has great stories about his friendship with Andy Warholl and what an absolute weirdo he was. But he described how, when stranded by a blizzard in Aspen, Andy chartered a flight to get him, his entourage and Oates, out of there. And then for two weeks they all just flew around the country from one party to the next in a drunken, drug-inspired (I'm guessing here) crawl.
So now I'm at this weird part of the book where he really glosses over a lot of stuff during their biggest times in the early 80s. He acknowledges that it was a crazy time and how suddenly he and Daryl were suddenly known by everyone- including celebrities. There was no place that was off limits to them and they could get whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. He doesn't really go into detail about recording any of their three biggest albums (Private Eyes, H2O, and Big Bam Boom) but tells little anecdotes during this time.
He tells a really touching story about Tom "T-Bone" Wolk who was their bassist. I should start by saying that with Voices, H&O moved from using session musicians to using their touring band. This included T-Bone and... much to my surprise... GE Smith- who I knew as the long time band leader from Saturday Night Live. Anyhow, he talks about how they almost didn't hire T-Bone because he didn't look like a rock star: he was bald and soft spoken, but a monster on the bass. They were also auditioning another guy (who goes unnamed) who was also great on bass and looked like a rock star with awesome rock star hair. After they auditioned him, they were going to hire him when he said to Daryl, "Hey man, when I join the band, I think you should let me sing lead on Kiss on my List." Like a record scratch, no one said anything for an awkward thirty seconds. Then Daryl looked at Oates, while the rock star guy is there and said, "Let's hire the bald guy." T-Bone died suddenly from a heart attack in 2010 and Oates has a great story about them playing together at a H&O show two nights before and Wolk wordlessly giving Oates his guitar solo in the middle of the song. It was really cool and a nice tribute to a good friend.
Oates also relates the inspiration to Maneater when he was at a celebrity restaurant in NYC when an unnamed model (who was on the cover of all the magazines and extremely famous) came in, sat across from him and then started talking with the filthiest language he'd ever heard. As he sat in the conversation, he heard the lyric in his head, "She'll chew you up and spit you out." Classic Oates.
Finally he also has great stories about his friendship with Andy Warholl and what an absolute weirdo he was. But he described how, when stranded by a blizzard in Aspen, Andy chartered a flight to get him, his entourage and Oates, out of there. And then for two weeks they all just flew around the country from one party to the next in a drunken, drug-inspired (I'm guessing here) crawl.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Again, I'm surprised by Oates gleaning over the biggest albums and high points of his career in the 80s- but you what? It's his story and he can tell it the way he wants. He goes into detail about his professional racing career and the nasty accident that scared him so bad he quit racing forever. To be honest, I was glad because I was getting tired of the racing stories. He also describes getting a pilots license, buying a plane and travelling on it through their various tour stops.
Finally, he describes when he and Daryl- trapped in a giant prop bass drum for one of their videos- looked at each other and decided they were tired of the grind. They'd sold over 80 million albums and been on tour essentially non-stop for the past twenty years. It wasn't that they didn't want to work with each other anymore, it's just that they didn't want the grind anymore. So, without making an announcement or telling anyone, they decided to finish out their current tour for their album Big Bam Boom and then just stop for awhile.
So what did "finishing out" entail? Well, in addition to a brief tour across Japan, they also were the closing act on Live Aid and were central vocalists to participate in the secret recording of We Are the World. Oates' description of the egos involved with We Are the World, and how Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie were trying to tame them all, is awesome. Apparently when you get all the most popular celebrity singers in a room together, they all want to "give notes" on how to improve the song. This ended when Ray Charles yelled at everyone to shut up and sing the song the way Michael and Lionel wrote it because "it's their damn song!" He also describes their final show for a fundraiser at the Apollo where they invited two of the Temptations to perform with them on a bunch of Temp's songs. It's one of the times where Oates is candid about how funny he must have looked in matching suits and dance moves with Daryl and the Temptations all standing over 6 feet, and he was there at 5'4".
But here's where it all breaks down. Shortly after deciding to stop performing, and in the midst of a looming divorce with his first wife, Nancy, his accountant gives him a call and says they need to have a meeting. Yes! I've been waiting for this! Apparently Tommy Mottola and his management company had moved to another accountant, but Oates- who'd never even spoken to them- was still a client. At the meeting he was faced with seven suits that started the meeting with "You're broke." Even though he owned a huge house in Connecticut, two different apartments in NYC, a cabin in Aspen and an airplane-- he had no cash. At the time of the meeting, he literally had $50 in cash. He panicked and thought he was having a heart attack on the way home from the meeting (he wasn't- just anxiety) but didn't know what to do. He realized he'd have to sell everything just so he could make it through his divorce, but he didn't know how to, or how much he'd have left. He realized he'd made a huge mistake trusting Mottola. He is careful to say that he wasn't saying that Mottola stole from him, but he also didn't say that he didn't think that- if you catch what I'm saying. He reveals for the first time that when they struck their deal with Mottola so long ago, they just decided they'd all be equal partners in whatever they earned. 1/3 Daryl; 1/3 Oates; 1/3 Mottola. He realizes that might not have been the best, or most just, strategy.
And that's when I got to work and had to stop listening!
Finally, he describes when he and Daryl- trapped in a giant prop bass drum for one of their videos- looked at each other and decided they were tired of the grind. They'd sold over 80 million albums and been on tour essentially non-stop for the past twenty years. It wasn't that they didn't want to work with each other anymore, it's just that they didn't want the grind anymore. So, without making an announcement or telling anyone, they decided to finish out their current tour for their album Big Bam Boom and then just stop for awhile.
So what did "finishing out" entail? Well, in addition to a brief tour across Japan, they also were the closing act on Live Aid and were central vocalists to participate in the secret recording of We Are the World. Oates' description of the egos involved with We Are the World, and how Quincy Jones, Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie were trying to tame them all, is awesome. Apparently when you get all the most popular celebrity singers in a room together, they all want to "give notes" on how to improve the song. This ended when Ray Charles yelled at everyone to shut up and sing the song the way Michael and Lionel wrote it because "it's their damn song!" He also describes their final show for a fundraiser at the Apollo where they invited two of the Temptations to perform with them on a bunch of Temp's songs. It's one of the times where Oates is candid about how funny he must have looked in matching suits and dance moves with Daryl and the Temptations all standing over 6 feet, and he was there at 5'4".
But here's where it all breaks down. Shortly after deciding to stop performing, and in the midst of a looming divorce with his first wife, Nancy, his accountant gives him a call and says they need to have a meeting. Yes! I've been waiting for this! Apparently Tommy Mottola and his management company had moved to another accountant, but Oates- who'd never even spoken to them- was still a client. At the meeting he was faced with seven suits that started the meeting with "You're broke." Even though he owned a huge house in Connecticut, two different apartments in NYC, a cabin in Aspen and an airplane-- he had no cash. At the time of the meeting, he literally had $50 in cash. He panicked and thought he was having a heart attack on the way home from the meeting (he wasn't- just anxiety) but didn't know what to do. He realized he'd have to sell everything just so he could make it through his divorce, but he didn't know how to, or how much he'd have left. He realized he'd made a huge mistake trusting Mottola. He is careful to say that he wasn't saying that Mottola stole from him, but he also didn't say that he didn't think that- if you catch what I'm saying. He reveals for the first time that when they struck their deal with Mottola so long ago, they just decided they'd all be equal partners in whatever they earned. 1/3 Daryl; 1/3 Oates; 1/3 Mottola. He realizes that might not have been the best, or most just, strategy.
And that's when I got to work and had to stop listening!
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Dang! Well, we have many other pieces of the Mottola puzzle that don't exactly undermine the idea he's a bad dude. You are stopping for work in the middle of all this drama! What is work next to this?!
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Oh my god! So much! I had to drive into my Austin office, so I had over an hour to listen. Y'all! So much!
First, let me again say that Oates is a class act. It is very clear, and he explicitly admits in a couple of places, that he lived debaucherously like the mega-celebrity he was. But he doesn't go into the salacious details. He respectfully talks about his failed marriage to Nancy Hunter (a model) and how it was completely his fault-- he was married; she wanted to settle down and, when he was on the road, he didn't act married. He's clearly indicating that he cheated on her a lot, but he doesn't give you details. And he doesn't have to. We get it, and he clearly still cares for Nancy and doesn't want to sullen her with sordid stories of him sleeping with other women. And for the most part- that's what he does with all the "rock-star-life" details- he glosses over them. You know they're there, but you don't really need to know what happened. Because you know, you know? So I think it's easy to get pressured into telling gross stories of gross behavior because that's what sells books. But I have a lot of respect for Oates that he didn't go down that road.
But what did happen to him was this: massive, massive debt. They always took giant advances for new records on the premise that the advances would be paid out by the royalties from the record sales. But when you have several records in a row that don't sell (like before the Private Eyes album), you amount a debt that has to be paid back. And Oates was unaware of any of this during the peak of his career. When he and Daryl decided to "quit while on top," he didn't realize how deeply in debt he was. He had to sell everything. The cars, the houses, the plane, the condos. Everything. Eventually he reveals that he was $9 million in debt. Wow. It's unclear from the book if that's before or after the fire sale, but still (I got the impression it was after). Yowza.
This is where Oates comes to the realization that he's not a good person. He'd had fun. He'd made brilliant music and was a super celebrity. But he wasn't the man he wanted to be. He went to therapy and decided he needed to reconstruct himself from the ground up. He sold everything and moved to Aspen and lived in a modest condo there. He doesn't explicitly say it, but it's clear that he spent significant time (a couple years?) being massively depressed. Making matters worse, he couldn't stop working because he still had to pay off his debt. So he and Daryl did shows here and there and he travelled with other bands just to pay bills. Don't get me wrong- he's not on the verge of being homeless or anything- but it was clearly humbling.
It all came to a head when H&O finished a tour in Japan (honestly- they were huge in Japan when their star faded here- which he was grateful for because of his finances) and faced himself in the mirror and realized drastic action needed to be taken. That signature mustache symbolized all the excess and failures of character that he'd come to loathe. It was time to shave it off. And he did and talked at length about how cathartic it was. He was recreating himself.
First, let me again say that Oates is a class act. It is very clear, and he explicitly admits in a couple of places, that he lived debaucherously like the mega-celebrity he was. But he doesn't go into the salacious details. He respectfully talks about his failed marriage to Nancy Hunter (a model) and how it was completely his fault-- he was married; she wanted to settle down and, when he was on the road, he didn't act married. He's clearly indicating that he cheated on her a lot, but he doesn't give you details. And he doesn't have to. We get it, and he clearly still cares for Nancy and doesn't want to sullen her with sordid stories of him sleeping with other women. And for the most part- that's what he does with all the "rock-star-life" details- he glosses over them. You know they're there, but you don't really need to know what happened. Because you know, you know? So I think it's easy to get pressured into telling gross stories of gross behavior because that's what sells books. But I have a lot of respect for Oates that he didn't go down that road.
But what did happen to him was this: massive, massive debt. They always took giant advances for new records on the premise that the advances would be paid out by the royalties from the record sales. But when you have several records in a row that don't sell (like before the Private Eyes album), you amount a debt that has to be paid back. And Oates was unaware of any of this during the peak of his career. When he and Daryl decided to "quit while on top," he didn't realize how deeply in debt he was. He had to sell everything. The cars, the houses, the plane, the condos. Everything. Eventually he reveals that he was $9 million in debt. Wow. It's unclear from the book if that's before or after the fire sale, but still (I got the impression it was after). Yowza.
This is where Oates comes to the realization that he's not a good person. He'd had fun. He'd made brilliant music and was a super celebrity. But he wasn't the man he wanted to be. He went to therapy and decided he needed to reconstruct himself from the ground up. He sold everything and moved to Aspen and lived in a modest condo there. He doesn't explicitly say it, but it's clear that he spent significant time (a couple years?) being massively depressed. Making matters worse, he couldn't stop working because he still had to pay off his debt. So he and Daryl did shows here and there and he travelled with other bands just to pay bills. Don't get me wrong- he's not on the verge of being homeless or anything- but it was clearly humbling.
It all came to a head when H&O finished a tour in Japan (honestly- they were huge in Japan when their star faded here- which he was grateful for because of his finances) and faced himself in the mirror and realized drastic action needed to be taken. That signature mustache symbolized all the excess and failures of character that he'd come to loathe. It was time to shave it off. And he did and talked at length about how cathartic it was. He was recreating himself.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
By that time, they'd put out 12 albums in 13 years, most (all?) of which was original music. I can totally see needing a break and going down to a new album every few years.Kyle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:04 am Finally, he describes when he and Daryl- trapped in a giant prop bass drum for one of their videos- looked at each other and decided they were tired of the grind. They'd sold over 80 million albums and been on tour essentially non-stop for the past twenty years. It wasn't that they didn't want to work with each other anymore, it's just that they didn't want the grind anymore. So, without making an announcement or telling anyone, they decided to finish out their current tour for their album Big Bam Boom and then just stop for awhile.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
So great story, the day after he shaved off the stache, he's in the airport and Miles Davis (!) was there because they'd performed the same show. Davis gets right up in Oates' beak for a solid minute and just stares at his upper lip. Then says, "Makes the lovin' that much better." And they all laughed. No shit. Miles fucking Davis.
In the 90s, Oates meets a farm girl from Illinois who is a local working at one of the boutiques in Aspen. They hit it off and eventually get married. He marries her and they decide to sell the condo and move to five acres outside of Aspen. They discover that their neighbor is Hunter S. Thompson. So far I haven't heard any good stories about Thompson, but I know they were good friends, so I'm hoping we get something good. Oates tells some interesting stories about getting a donkey and chickens and actually working on his five acres mending fences and using a tractor. He does it all himself to both save money and for the exercise. Eventually he and his wife have a son, Tanner.
All this time in the 90s and early 2000s while living in Colorado, he's still having to travel and play so he can pay his bills. But this time his family travels with him on the road. Gone are the days of excess and partying. Now his family are his "road dogs." Until his son turns 13 and insists on going to a real school instead of being homeschooled on the road.
In the 90s, Oates meets a farm girl from Illinois who is a local working at one of the boutiques in Aspen. They hit it off and eventually get married. He marries her and they decide to sell the condo and move to five acres outside of Aspen. They discover that their neighbor is Hunter S. Thompson. So far I haven't heard any good stories about Thompson, but I know they were good friends, so I'm hoping we get something good. Oates tells some interesting stories about getting a donkey and chickens and actually working on his five acres mending fences and using a tractor. He does it all himself to both save money and for the exercise. Eventually he and his wife have a son, Tanner.
All this time in the 90s and early 2000s while living in Colorado, he's still having to travel and play so he can pay his bills. But this time his family travels with him on the road. Gone are the days of excess and partying. Now his family are his "road dogs." Until his son turns 13 and insists on going to a real school instead of being homeschooled on the road.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Yeah- he talks about that at length. It was a moment of: Okay, we've reached the top- why are we still busting our asses- what's left to accomplish?Stan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:13 pmBy that time, they'd put out 12 albums in 13 years, most (all?) of which was original music. I can totally see needing a break and going down to a new album every few years.Kyle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:04 am Finally, he describes when he and Daryl- trapped in a giant prop bass drum for one of their videos- looked at each other and decided they were tired of the grind. They'd sold over 80 million albums and been on tour essentially non-stop for the past twenty years. It wasn't that they didn't want to work with each other anymore, it's just that they didn't want the grind anymore. So, without making an announcement or telling anyone, they decided to finish out their current tour for their album Big Bam Boom and then just stop for awhile.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I'm not sure why this is so fascinating, but it is.
Did he say anything about writing new music to help pay off the debt? I would think that playing shows and releasing new music would help. Of course it's possible that they did release new music and I never heard it.
The Clash had a similar problem--they were massively in debt to the record label until "Combat Rock."
Did he say anything about writing new music to help pay off the debt? I would think that playing shows and releasing new music would help. Of course it's possible that they did release new music and I never heard it.
The Clash had a similar problem--they were massively in debt to the record label until "Combat Rock."
Reel on a repeating loop
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Not really. He's proud of the fact that the music is- and always was- only about the music. They did release more albums that didn't sell well. Their last, in 2006, was an easy cash grab with a Christmas album. (But all christmas albums are easy cash grabs.)Akiva wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:33 pm I'm not sure why this is so fascinating, but it is.
Did he say anything about writing new music to help pay off the debt? I would think that playing shows and releasing new music would help. Of course it's possible that they did release new music and I never heard it.
He does talk about the fact that the only reason he kept grinding out live performances was because he had no choice. They way around the "record label trap" is to do live performances- which they can negotiate and collect on themselves- no middle men. He talks at one point about wanting to expand his house outside Aspen and that's how he looked at his live shows: "Strum a guitar tonight and I can put in floors. Strum a guitar tomorrow night and I can have those countertops in the bathrooms."
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Role Reversal
I wouldn't expect to hear about this in the book, but perhaps elsewhere the possibility is considered that Oates doesn't make it and a new man is brought in to pretend to be Oates because Hall is broke and in debt and needs to play these shows? And since the new fake Oates can't grow a convincing mustache they pretend that the real Oates shaved it off, and that's why the person we see above is an entirely different human being?
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
#OatesGate
#SaveTheStache
#SaveTheStache
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Interestingly enough, I read this article this morning and watched the video linked therein.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Well everyone, all good things must come to an end, and so it is with Change of Seasons.
I have finished it.
But let me tell you- it goes out with a literal bang.
So the great news is this: Oates got his money back! He hired a team of lawyers who investigated the record companies' accounting practices. It turns out that the big companies (including Arista and RCA) were broadly using "suspense accounts." These are accounts where they deposit royalties for artists that they can't locate. Then they earn interest on the amounts. Now to be clear, there is a valid, legitimate reason for these and- as you can imagine with many small bands/artists- it can be quite difficult to locate them. But they were holding large amounts in the "suspense accounts" for Hall and Oates and people like Dolly Parton. It strains credibility for the companies to claim they didn't know where these mega celebrity artists were, and in my opinion, was just an accounting sham. So H&O got their back royalties plus interest restored to them. But it gets better! It also turns out that the companies were using accounting practices to make it look like any owed royalties were outweighed by debts, but in reality it wasn't true. So they received more money for that and- most importantly- got the rights back to their catalog of music. H&O then sold the publishing rights to that catalog themselves for many millions of dollars. A great ending.
But wait! remember how I wanted to hear good Hunter S Thompson stories! There were a slew of them! And they were exactly what you would want when hearing stories from Thompson's next door neighbor! Was there coke involved? Yup. Was there loaded guns involved? Yup. Were there brain-addling amounts of whiskey and Johnny Depp? Double yup. But I'm not going to get into all of those- read the book if you want the details. They were hilarious an wonderful. But I will leave you with this. Oates was asked to perform at Thompson's funeral. You may remember this from the news-- Johnny Depp paid over $2 million dollars for a giant extravaganza which culminated in Thompson's ashes being shot into the stratosphere by a five-story long cannon. Epic. Absolutely epic.
In reflecting on the book, I found it a bit odd that he didn't talk about his friendship with Daryl Hall more. He certainly told a lot of stories about things that he did with Daryl, but he doesn't talk that much about Daryl himself- conversations they had, confidences they shared, etc. But as I thought more about it, I realized that I think he did that out of respect for Daryl. He states that he wanted to write about his story- the John Oates story- and not the Hall and Oates story. And he didn't do that out of ego, but because he didn't think it was his place to speak for Daryl. Oates can only speak for himself and his own experiences. I thought that was pretty cool and I really have a lot of respect for Oates and the way he handled his book with class and dignity. I also found this quote from an interview that was done with Daryl and John last year:
Q: Is there any song that you two fought over?
Hall: No. John and I never fight. We’ve never had a real fight since we’ve known each other — and that’s since we were kids, teenagers. We just know to deal with each other. That’s why we’re still together.
Oates: The fact that Daryl and I are still friends, that he and I still get along — it’s a miracle. But we do.
Class act, John Oates. Class act.
I have finished it.
But let me tell you- it goes out with a literal bang.
So the great news is this: Oates got his money back! He hired a team of lawyers who investigated the record companies' accounting practices. It turns out that the big companies (including Arista and RCA) were broadly using "suspense accounts." These are accounts where they deposit royalties for artists that they can't locate. Then they earn interest on the amounts. Now to be clear, there is a valid, legitimate reason for these and- as you can imagine with many small bands/artists- it can be quite difficult to locate them. But they were holding large amounts in the "suspense accounts" for Hall and Oates and people like Dolly Parton. It strains credibility for the companies to claim they didn't know where these mega celebrity artists were, and in my opinion, was just an accounting sham. So H&O got their back royalties plus interest restored to them. But it gets better! It also turns out that the companies were using accounting practices to make it look like any owed royalties were outweighed by debts, but in reality it wasn't true. So they received more money for that and- most importantly- got the rights back to their catalog of music. H&O then sold the publishing rights to that catalog themselves for many millions of dollars. A great ending.
But wait! remember how I wanted to hear good Hunter S Thompson stories! There were a slew of them! And they were exactly what you would want when hearing stories from Thompson's next door neighbor! Was there coke involved? Yup. Was there loaded guns involved? Yup. Were there brain-addling amounts of whiskey and Johnny Depp? Double yup. But I'm not going to get into all of those- read the book if you want the details. They were hilarious an wonderful. But I will leave you with this. Oates was asked to perform at Thompson's funeral. You may remember this from the news-- Johnny Depp paid over $2 million dollars for a giant extravaganza which culminated in Thompson's ashes being shot into the stratosphere by a five-story long cannon. Epic. Absolutely epic.
In reflecting on the book, I found it a bit odd that he didn't talk about his friendship with Daryl Hall more. He certainly told a lot of stories about things that he did with Daryl, but he doesn't talk that much about Daryl himself- conversations they had, confidences they shared, etc. But as I thought more about it, I realized that I think he did that out of respect for Daryl. He states that he wanted to write about his story- the John Oates story- and not the Hall and Oates story. And he didn't do that out of ego, but because he didn't think it was his place to speak for Daryl. Oates can only speak for himself and his own experiences. I thought that was pretty cool and I really have a lot of respect for Oates and the way he handled his book with class and dignity. I also found this quote from an interview that was done with Daryl and John last year:
Q: Is there any song that you two fought over?
Hall: No. John and I never fight. We’ve never had a real fight since we’ve known each other — and that’s since we were kids, teenagers. We just know to deal with each other. That’s why we’re still together.
Oates: The fact that Daryl and I are still friends, that he and I still get along — it’s a miracle. But we do.
Class act, John Oates. Class act.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I enjoyed this so much but feel as our proxy you owe us at least one Hunter S Thompson tale in more detail.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Agreed! Football was sacrosanct at Thompson's place. On Sunday's and (most importantly) Monday night, he would invite all sorts of weirdos, artists, bruisers and locals to watch football. When the game was on, no one was allowed to speak. When the commercials started, he muted the TV and held court, telling fantastical stories that were probably all true. Once the game started again, everyone had to shut up. During all this, there were loaded guns just lying around. Thompson would drink whiskey out of a giant milk glass filled to the brim.
Oates had written a slice of life article about living in this area outside of Aspen (Oates was a journalism major before dropping out of college) and told Thompson that he had mentioned him in it and thought he should give him a chance to read it before it was published. Thompson said, "Sure! Monday! 8 pm!" Oates shows up to his first Monday Night event. After watching a few downs, at the first commercial break, he asks Thompson, "So, do you want to read it?" Thompson says, "No, son! You're going to read it! To everyone!" Oates tried to reply, but the game came back on. So at the next commercial, Oates starts reading his article to the room- somewhat sheepishly. Thompson cuts him off, "No goddamn it! Read it like you fucking mean it!" Oates starts again, more forcefully, but still intimidated and Thompson cuts him off again, "Goddamn it, son! I want to fucking hear you fucking feel it! Read it like you fucking feel it goddamn it!" So Oates really gets into it, starting again, but only gets one sentence in and Thompson shouts, "Shut the fuck up! The game's on!" So it was that Oates over-emoted his entire article, over the span of four commercial breaks. And when it was over, poking him gently in the side with a bowie knife, Thompson says, "That's top shelf! Top shelf! Top shelf stuff!" and was clearly impressed with the writing.
Oates said, even though he'd performed in front of hundreds of thousands of people before this, he'd never been more nervous in his life. Nor as happy with the response.
Fucking Hunter S. Thompson.
Oates had written a slice of life article about living in this area outside of Aspen (Oates was a journalism major before dropping out of college) and told Thompson that he had mentioned him in it and thought he should give him a chance to read it before it was published. Thompson said, "Sure! Monday! 8 pm!" Oates shows up to his first Monday Night event. After watching a few downs, at the first commercial break, he asks Thompson, "So, do you want to read it?" Thompson says, "No, son! You're going to read it! To everyone!" Oates tried to reply, but the game came back on. So at the next commercial, Oates starts reading his article to the room- somewhat sheepishly. Thompson cuts him off, "No goddamn it! Read it like you fucking mean it!" Oates starts again, more forcefully, but still intimidated and Thompson cuts him off again, "Goddamn it, son! I want to fucking hear you fucking feel it! Read it like you fucking feel it goddamn it!" So Oates really gets into it, starting again, but only gets one sentence in and Thompson shouts, "Shut the fuck up! The game's on!" So it was that Oates over-emoted his entire article, over the span of four commercial breaks. And when it was over, poking him gently in the side with a bowie knife, Thompson says, "That's top shelf! Top shelf! Top shelf stuff!" and was clearly impressed with the writing.
Oates said, even though he'd performed in front of hundreds of thousands of people before this, he'd never been more nervous in his life. Nor as happy with the response.
Fucking Hunter S. Thompson.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
cover by the original artist with a casual sound. And sax.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Someone please do another book review of an audiobook so that I can feel like I'm reading something fascinating by proxy of a proxy. this turned out to be in fact the pandemic content we all needed but did not know we needed.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
I'm one of those people that always... ALWAYS... has a song going through their head. Even when I wake up in the middle of the night to pee. Even when I'm yelling at someone on the phone. I don't know if that's normal. But it is ever present. Often it's not a complete song, but just a snippet or chorus on repeat. Always.
For the last two weeks it's been the chorus to this song:
It's actually been plesent, so I haven't worked to replace it.
Also- watch this video. It's a live performance. If you want to hear both Hall's and Oates's incredible voices- this is a showcase of them.
For the last two weeks it's been the chorus to this song:
It's actually been plesent, so I haven't worked to replace it.
Also- watch this video. It's a live performance. If you want to hear both Hall's and Oates's incredible voices- this is a showcase of them.
Re: Change of Seasons: The John Oates Memoir
Two Oates Updates, or Oatesdates, as I like to think of them:
1- For a period of about 10 hours She's Gone was replaced in my always-on-in-my-head-song with a jingle from a local car dealer's commercial. Fortunately this corrected itself yesterday evening and reverted to She's Gone. Whew.
2- In my house, we now measure people's heights by their relation to Oates. We were watching a Danny Radcliffe movie (Jungle- actually quite good for a true story survival pic) and questioning how tall he was. I looked it up and said, "Wow. He's only one inch taller than Oates." My oldest daughter said, "Wow." My youngest daughter said, "No way. Five five?" So proud of these kids.
Finally, just a note, or an Oatesnote, as I like to think of them:
You know how I like to thank people for creating art I like? I tried to find some kind of contact information to tell Oates how much I really appreciated his memoir, but couldn't. I'm going to make this my life's goal. Every time I think to thank some other artist, I'll make an effort to find new contact info on Oates.
By the way, on a side note not related to Oates (or Noates, as I like to think of them)- authors are by far the most responsive when I send them personal thanks for their books. Movie people, video game people, even board game people are hit or miss. But contact an author, and I get a response probably 70% of the time.
1- For a period of about 10 hours She's Gone was replaced in my always-on-in-my-head-song with a jingle from a local car dealer's commercial. Fortunately this corrected itself yesterday evening and reverted to She's Gone. Whew.
2- In my house, we now measure people's heights by their relation to Oates. We were watching a Danny Radcliffe movie (Jungle- actually quite good for a true story survival pic) and questioning how tall he was. I looked it up and said, "Wow. He's only one inch taller than Oates." My oldest daughter said, "Wow." My youngest daughter said, "No way. Five five?" So proud of these kids.
Finally, just a note, or an Oatesnote, as I like to think of them:
You know how I like to thank people for creating art I like? I tried to find some kind of contact information to tell Oates how much I really appreciated his memoir, but couldn't. I'm going to make this my life's goal. Every time I think to thank some other artist, I'll make an effort to find new contact info on Oates.
By the way, on a side note not related to Oates (or Noates, as I like to think of them)- authors are by far the most responsive when I send them personal thanks for their books. Movie people, video game people, even board game people are hit or miss. But contact an author, and I get a response probably 70% of the time.