The Next Campaign

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:11 pm

I'm leaning towards elf wizard. Though if someone else really wants to fill the arcane spellcaster role, I'd be fine playing an elf rogue. I'll try to get a character sheet put together and posted up soon, after I have a chance to review the player's guide over the weekend.

bralbovsky · Post by **bralbovsky** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:55 am

Will we have those NPCs with us? or should someone play them?
Just curious as I review 2e limitations also (no summoners, right?)

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:32 pm

Still hoping to play a healer of some sort, although I'm happy to defer to anyone else who really wants to do it. I'm just not into the Hulk Smash because I worked all of that desire out of myself with Dwyn.

zen · Post by **zen** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:08 pm

Phoebe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:32 pm Still hoping to play a healer of some sort, although I'm happy to defer to anyone else who really wants to do it. I'm just not into the Hulk Smash because I worked all of that desire out of myself with Dwyn.

Your idea of a healer that infuses food with healing magic is fantastic! I hope it's doable in P2E.

zen · Post by **zen** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:12 pm

Does anyone know why a rapier is not an agile weapon in P2E? It seems like it should be...

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:16 pm

Because it's a finesse weapon? Those don't have to go together.

In other words, you're already getting the bonus from choosing your superior Stat, you don't get a second bonus for it /also/ being agile.

zen · Post by **zen** » Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:34 pm

Eliahad wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:16 pm Because it's a finesse weapon? Those don't have to go together.

In other words, you're already getting the bonus from choosing your superior Stat, you don't get a second bonus for it /also/ being agile.

[EDIT: Agile doesn't mean the same thing in 2.0 that it did in the old version. In the old version, it meant that you got to apply your Dex bonus to the damage. In 2.0 it means that you get a decreased penalty for multiple attacks.]

Short Swords are both Finesse and Agile as well as Versatile [(S) as well as (P)].

In terms of weight, in P2E, a Rapier is listed as "1" and a Short Sword as "L", though in the old version they were both 2 lb. The new system puts a rapier as being the same "Bulk" as a longsword when I'm pretty sure they are generally lighter by a long shot. Most likely they're lighter than most short swords...

I was talking about it with my son and his guess is that it's because of the other aspects of the Rapier:

"Deadly d8, disarm, finesse"

It has the extra D8 on a crit, in addition to double damage, so it does 2D6+1D8 on a crit. And it also has the "Disarm" feature, which means that you can use it to disarm using the "Athletic" skill even without a free hand. (Of course, any duelist would HAVE a free hand, so that feature isn't actually worth anything to them... sigh...)

It just makes no sense to have a dueling weapon NOT be an agile weapon when the short sword is... not to mention things like a dog-slicer, light hammer, Light PICK, etc... I was thinking it was anything that had a Bulk of "L", but Nunchaku are NOT Agile despite having a bulk of "L"... (and how does THAT make sense? Aren't Nunchaku like... one of the ultimate in multiple attacks per round weapons? It seems like if anything should get a lower penalty for multiple attacks it would be nun-chucks!)

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:38 am

Alright, if I'm going to play an elven wizard, here's what I'm thinking of starting with:

Caphiel
Male elf wizard 1
N, Medium, Elf, Humanoid
Heritage seer elf
Background scholar
Perception +6; low-light vision
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Sylvan
Skills Academia Lore +7, Acrobatics +5, Arcana +7 (+8 to checks to Identify Magic and to Decipher Writing of a magical nature.), Crafting +7, Diplomacy +3, Medicine +6, Nature +6 (+7 to checks to Identify Magic and to Decipher Writing of a magical nature.), Occultism +7 (+8 to checks to Identify Magic and to Decipher Writing of a magical nature.), Religion +6 (+7 to checks to Identify Magic and to Decipher Writing of a magical nature.), Stealth +5, Survival +6
Str 10 (+0), Dex 14 (+2), Con 10 (+0), Int 18 (+4), Wis 16 (+3), Cha 10 (+0)
Other Items Spellbook, Spellbook, purse (14 gp)
--------------------
AC 15; Fort +3; Ref +5; Will +8
HP 12
--------------------
Speed 30 feet
Arcane Wizard Spells DC 17, attack +7; 1st mage armor, magic missile Cantrips (1st) acid splash, detect magic, light, message, prestidigitation
Ancestry Feats Ancestral Longevity
Class Feats Eschew Materials
Skill Feats Assurance
Other Abilities arcane bond, arcane schools, arcane spellcasting, arcane thesis, spell substitution, spellbook, universalist

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:54 am

If I go with a elven rogue, here's what I'm thinking of starting with:

Ambriel
Male elf rogue 1
N, Medium, Elf, Humanoid
Heritage whisper elf
Background detective
Perception +5 (+6 to find traps, +7 to Seek a unseen creature that you hear within 30 ft.); low-light vision
Languages Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin
Skills Acrobatics +7, Arcana +6, Athletics +4, Deception +4, Diplomacy +4, Intimidation +4, Nature +3, Occultism +6, Religion +3, Society +6, Stealth +7, Survival +3, Thievery +7, Underworld Lore +6
Str 12 (+1), Dex 18 (+4), Con 10 (+0), Int 16 (+3), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 12 (+1)
Other Items purse (15 gp)
--------------------
AC 17; Fort +3; Ref +9; Will +5; +1 vs. traps
HP 14
--------------------
Speed 35 feet
Surprise Attack You spring into combat faster than foes can react. On the first round of combat, if you roll Deception or Stealth for initiative, creatures that haven’t acted are flat-footed to you.
Ancestry Feats Nimble Elf
Class Feats Trap Finder
Skill Feats Pickpocket, Streetwise
Other Abilities rogue's racket, sneak attack, thief

Post by **Mike** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:44 pm

zen wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:34 pm It just makes no sense to have a dueling weapon NOT be an agile weapon when the short sword is... not to mention things like a dog-slicer, light hammer, Light PICK, etc... I was thinking it was anything that had a Bulk of "L", but Nunchaku are NOT Agile despite having a bulk of "L"... (and how does THAT make sense? Aren't Nunchaku like... one of the ultimate in multiple attacks per round weapons? It seems like if anything should get a lower penalty for multiple attacks it would be nun-chucks!)

Rapier vs short sword is largely consistent with 1e. Both list short sword as light and rapier as one-handed. Both allow finesse on the rapier despite it not being a light weapon.

Sure the rapier is a precision dueling weapon, and it has attributes to support that role, but agile is more about the compact size of the weapons in that category. Most of them are light weapons that are relatively small, giving them a shorter pendulum for the swinging. So they require less effort to turn around. Rapier, for all its advantages, is not a light weapon and is longer than these others. Longer arc, longer pendulum, takes more effort to redirect. I don't think Agile it about the speed of those 2nd and 3rd attacks. It's about their accuracy. For better or worse, you can be more accurate with a lighter more compact weapon. It won't deal as much damage, but that's the trade-off.

That's the best I come up with, and it makes sense to me. On the other hand, I got nothing on the nunchaku question.

Post by **Mike** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:30 pm

Tahlvin: can you give me the elevator pitch for concept/background/personality for either/both of those? Just a couple sentences to build potential expectations or connections between party members.

Tahlvin · Post by **Tahlvin** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:16 pm

Thought for the wizard is that he's an obsessive wizard, always focused on learning new, more powerful spells, and crafting more powerful magic items. If we had stayed with P1E, he was going to be a mystic theurge, focused on amassing more and more arcane and divine magic. This is similar, but only focused on amassing arcane magic power.

Thought for the rogue is that he's a police detective that sometimes moonlights as a cat burglar, and if he ends up being tasked with investigating one of his on crimes, it's just an opportunity to frame a competitor. He never steals from elves; after all, the humans are all living on land they stole from the elves, so it's only fair he steal from them. One of his crimes went a bit too far, however, pissing off the wrong people, so he's having to get out of Dodge and hope things blow over.

zen · Post by **zen** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:30 pm

Tahlvin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:16 pm Thought for the wizard is that he's an obsessive wizard, always focused on learning new, more powerful spells, and crafting more powerful magic items. If we had stayed with P1E, he was going to be a mystic theurge, focused on amassing more and more arcane and divine magic. This is similar, but only focused on amassing arcane magic power.

Thought for the rogue is that he's a police detective that sometimes moonlights as a cat burglar, and if he ends up being tasked with investigating one of his on crimes, it's just an opportunity to frame a competitor. He never steals from elves; after all, the humans are all living on land they stole from the elves, so it's only fair he steal from them. One of his crimes went a bit too far, however, pissing off the wrong people, so he's having to get out of Dodge and hope things blow over.

I can definitely see the detective and Kiara, the bounty hunter, having a connection, but not necessarily a friendly working relationship considering her experience growing up in Crying Leaf. However, even if she figured out that not all of the people she was bringing in were guilty, it wouldn't matter to her. There's a bounty on them, she's bringing them in and getting paid. Simple business transaction. Guilt or innocence is not her decision or something she cares about.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:22 pm

I just want to know if all y'all have decent personal hygiene? There is no sense wasting efforts on people who cannot even be bothered to take the most simple measures to respect a meal, much less the intricate process that goes into making it.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:25 pm

I'm changing my character up and I'm going to be a Human Bard Street Magician. So no, I don't think I'll be high on personal hygiene.

And to be clear, I'm going to be less Dothan and more illusions and sneaking around. A lone wolf pack of one. As it were.

zen · Post by **zen** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:03 pm

I've come up with an Alternate version of Kiara: A Human fighter. Not using one of the standard builds in the P2E book, but one of my own devising in terms of the Feat path. She still was raised in Crying Leaf, but by her adoptive mother after her mother died, and then left at 15 to go to her parent's hometown of Korvosa when her father offered to take her. (Tossed in a potential "Kay's father" character as her adoptive uncle...) No longer a duelist, but uses a two-handed weapon: an Elven Curve Blade (Took Adopted Ancestry and Elven Weapon Familiarity, then paid for an Elven Curve Blade, though explained it as a gift in the backstory... she's pretty much broke after the build. I also swapped out Hide armor for Studded Leather, because of he dex limitations on Hide. That took my last GP...)

She no longer has Thievery, but she does have Society now, which fits a kid who spent a few years pretty much living alone on the streets. (Streetwise should be in her arsenal and that falls under Society. This is part of where the idea to switch things around came from...)

I also didn't max out her DEX in favor of a little more INT. I tried for a more balanced approach.

Character Sheet:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/36oya1fgb4zcm ... a.pdf?dl=0

Stat Block:
Kiara Zinmyar (Fordyce) ALT
N
Medium
Human
Versatile Heritage
Humanoid
Perception +5;
Languages Common, Elven, Jotun, Undercommon
Skills Acrobatics +6, Athletics +6, Intimidation +3, Lore: Legal +5, Performance +3, Society +5, Stealth +6, Survival +3
Str +3, Dex +3, Con +1, Int +2, Wis +0, Cha +0
Items Studded Leather, Backpack, Bedroll, Chalk (10), Flint and Steel, Rope, Rations (2), Torch (5), Waterskin, Soap, Grappling Hook, Manacles (Simple)
AC 18, Fort +6, Ref +8, Will +3
HP 19
Shield Block
Attack of Opportunity
Speed 25 feet
Melee Elven Curve Blade +8 (Elf, Finesse, Forceful, Uncommon),
Damage 1d8+3 (S)
Melee Dagger +8 (Agile, Finesse, Thrown 10 ft., Versatile S),
Damage 1d4+3 (P)
Ranged Hand Crossbow +8 (),
Damage 1d6 (P)
Exacting Strike (Press) You make a controlled attack, fully accounting for your momentum. Make a Strike. The Strike gains the following failure effect. Failure This attack does not count toward your multiple attack penalty.
Additional Feats Adopted Ancestry, Elven Weapon Familiarity, Experienced Tracker
Additional Specials Adopted Ancestry (Elf)

Modified Backstory:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ga9bikmduddu ... y.pdf?dl=0

Projected Feat Path:
EXACTING STRIKE FEAT 1
LUNGE FEAT 2
QUICK REVERSAL FEAT 4
EITHER:
ADVANTAGEOUS ASSAULT FEAT 6
OR
SHATTER DEFENSES FEAT 6
EITHER:
BLIND-FIGHT FEAT 8
OR
POSITIONING ASSAULT FEAT 8
EITHER:
COMBAT REFLEXES FEAT 10
OR
DISRUPTIVE STANCE FEAT 10
LUNGING STANCE FEAT 12
ETHER:
STANCE SAVANT FEAT 14
OR
WHIRLWIND STRIKE FEAT 14
SAVAGE CRITICAL FEAT 18
WEAPON SUPREMACY FEAT 20

The feat path concept is basically a fighter that uses multiple attacks per round and extends reach to have maximum impact on opponents. This is somewhat to take advantage of this:

"Forceful: This weapon becomes more dangerous as you
build momentum. When you attack with it more than once
on your turn, the second attack gains a circumstance bonus
to damage equal to the number of weapon damage dice,
and each subsequent attack gains a circumstance bonus to
damage equal to double the number of weapon damage dice."

I believe by taking "Exacting Strike", I can limit my multiple attack penalty to the first level for all following attacks on a full attack round if the second one misses.

Strike, Exacting Strike, Exacting Strike would mean that the third attack would still be at -5 if the second attack misses, if I read that correctly, but, it would gain the extra damage dice for forceful... I think... And then there's Wirlwhind Strike... that'd just be sick!

EDIT: Changed the stats for STR and WIS.

bralbovsky · Post by **bralbovsky** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:52 pm

So, we have Bard, Fighter, Healer....

Tahlvin is thinking Wiz or Rogue

Andrew? SB? Mike? (Still headed for sailor?)

Darcs: The module has four NPCs. Should someone play them or are they superfluous as far as you're concerned?

Post by **Mike** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:16 pm

Yes. Still playing a dwarf sailor (fighter).

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:49 pm

Excellent, my first mark.

zen · Post by **zen** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:43 am

Updated the Human Kiara's backstory a bit... I fixed some typos, got rid of a couple of half-elven references, and fixed the age and timing of the "just might be Kay's father" character. (Ok... totally is Kay's father...) [It just happens that the Drow raid on Crying Leaf would have been right around when Kay was born, which makes for a fine rationale for her father's quick return to his home.]

Any opinions on which of the two versions looks better? I'm leaning toward the 2nd (human) myself. I like the Duelist, but I'm more interested in making my own build for a fighter. If you're going the Duelist path, you really can't stray from the path and take any different feats because all the later ones have prerequisites of the earlier ones.

EDIT: Of course, that's assuming that DmDarcs oks her having the Elven Curve Blade... Not that she'll be likely to find any of those enchanted... I also adjusted her to be just as good with strength-based weapons as dex-based... at the expense of wisdom...

zen · Post by **zen** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:15 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:16 pm Yes. Still playing a dwarf sailor (fighter).

If you work riverboats as well as on the sea, I can guess where we met!

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:38 pm

If you want to make a riverboat encounter a meeting place I could definitely work with that. Halfling gets job as chef; absolutely loathes being on the water and just looking for a way to get out of it.

zen · Post by **zen** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:17 pm

In the end, we all need to be in Sandpoint to get in on the job, but we could have met prior and have kept in contact once we arrived?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:26 pm

zen wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:15 pm
Mike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 9:16 pm Yes. Still playing a dwarf sailor (fighter).
If you work riverboats as well as on the sea, I can guess where we met!

In my youth, I wouldn't have been caught dead on a riverboat. Why ride a burro down the mountainside after you've ridden Torag's winged goats? But eventually you figure out work is work, and nothing is beneath you when there's need.

So yeah, I've occasionally sailed upriver, poled barges and the like, but not often. The very few times I've worked rivers, it's been to earn my own passage. Never for a long haul.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:42 pm

Ok - so is there any reason for us all to be working on or near a boat that harbors in Sandpoint?

zen · Post by **zen** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:49 pm

Phoebe wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:42 pm Ok - so is there any reason for us all to be working on or near a boat that harbors in Sandpoint?

I could be chasing a bounty anywhere in the area whenever I meet you folks, that includes on a ship.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:26 pm

I can be working a boat already or I can be looking for work. Or other explanations. I could be in Sandpoint waiting on a messenger who will never arrive. Endless possibilities.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:45 pm

I just thought the boat idea was kind of cool! Hey are we actually meeting up tonight to try to talk about the campaign or do anything, and if we are going to do this are we going to start doing it in Zoom meetings or something else like that?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:28 pm

Not tonight for me.

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:29 pm

And as a sailor, I'm on board with the boat thought.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:05 pm

I'm so frustrated - I typed out a whooooooole thing and if you know me, you know it was a whoooooole thing. Then login timed out and it was lost. Lessons.

Anyway, I dig this ship idea so I rolled with it and all kinds of things happened. I looked into chefs for inspiration. I randomly picked a name off the list - Robuchon - because it sounded similar to the name I had been thinking of for my chef character. Turns out, he's one of the greatest chefs of all time and was on the board of Larousse Gastronomie and winner of a seemingly endless number of Michelin stars for his numerous restaurants around the world. Teacher of others like Morimoto, Bourdain, etc. But it gets better. I look up his picture and, well, it was really the guy I had in my mind. It was this halfling cook-healer. There he was. Guess what dish he's MOST famous for, of all his dishes? Mashed potatoes.

Serendipities start really rolling once you get going, however. I said to myself, I will need an explanation for how a halfling ended up cooking on a boat. I thought this will happen because something about him is connected to a deity of sailing, since after all he has to come up with these clerical healing powers somewhere as well. He was born as a concept and in his story - TODAY, APRIL 7 - which Pathfinder wiki informs me happens to be the HOLIDAY of Currentseve, when sailors pray to Gozreh for safe passage in the coming year. Perfect! His mom had him on that day and took it as an omen because... his father (now unknown) was a sailor. She is a cook; maybe she was serving them food while they were in port; maybe she was selling them supplies; maybe she's from Roderic's Cove, where lots of ships harbor, and maybe her name is...

BRANDY? Yes. It's never too much. Brandy's love went off to sea and she never heard from him again. But she was pregnant and had a very difficult pregnancy. She prayed fervently, concocted healing potions for herself and baby, and delivered a healthy baby boy on April 7, Holiday of Gozreh, Holiday of Sailors, and ... you can't make this stuff up, folks, you simply run a finger along the fertile soils of the internet and all of this springs forth fully formed ... it also happens to be the birthday of this great chef in OUR world, Robuchon.

When little Rhoboo was born, Brandy named him after one of the stars in the constellation overhead that night, Rho Bootis, and dedicated him to Gozreh. He was a homebody who loved to be with his mom and quickly took to the practice of cooking. He would have loved to apprentice in a local restaurant or even one of the great hotels of Magnimar. However, Brandy retained her idealism about seafaring and insisted he earn his living as a youngster by working on a boat's crew. First he was the small guy sent to crawl up masts and untangle nets - tasks he thoroughly hated - but he soon attached himself to a larger merchant vessel as a steward's assistant and eventually a cook. The galleys were generally awful, dark holes choked with heat and fumes. Rhoboo had none of his mother's romanticized view of the sea or sailors, either: most sailors were rude, filthy, slow-witted drunks. It gave him no pleasure to realize his own father most likely had been some such disappointing halfing, drawn to the selfish, hard life of the wanderer instead of settling down in comfort and security.

His early jobs were horrid but at least he was able to earn enough to set up his mother in modest comfort and keep her from working too hard into older age. Now, after some years have passed and Rhoboo himself approaches the beginnings of middle age, he has found a situation on a ship that travels weekly up and down the coast from Roderic's Cove to Sandpoint and Magnimar, carrying goods and passenger traffic. The galley is much nicer and even boasts a portion above deck for convenience in serving the paying passengers, and he has a staff of two assistants. Rhoboo endears himself to the crew with his skill in poultices, broths, and stews that cure many ails. He has developed sure-fire remedies for sea-sickness and hangovers, with helpful applications to morning sickness. He still loathes sailing and wishes above all he could save enough gold to buy his own place - maybe in a less expensive town like Sandpoint - and open a cafe or restaurant. The pay in the current job is decent but even at this rate, how many more years will it take before he can finally break free?

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:35 pm

So here's what I'd like to do if our leader approves of this approach:

This Rhoboo, he's a Cleric in Class, but not in story in the traditional manner. He was blessed from birth by the god Gozreh, the culminating effect of months of his mother's single-minded devotionals and healing potions. His healing powers derive from Gozreh, as a result, but he doesn't tap into them by praying or living as a priest of the god. Rather, he has to devote himself to the study of his art and science of cooking, pondering recipes and ingredients, experimenting with techniques and temperatures and combinations until he comes up with breakthroughs for which he gives thanks to Gozreh without particularly realizing the direct causal connection between these things.

Normally he will accomplish healing arts by actually delivering something the recipient must eat or drink, but I'm thinking he also has to be able to do this through touch as well at some point. Some explanation will have to be given for how he then begins acquiring other kinds of Cleric spells that can be uttered rather than simply transformed into food like the healing spells. I would prefer to let things roll and see what explanations present themselves.

He has an old copy of Winds and Waters (book of clerics of Gozreh) in which he has written down all his recipes and notes - that's his devotional book. His holy symbol is his chef's knife which he would never use as a weapon, though he might wield OTHER knives as weaponry, and a little crossbow. The uniform he wears in the kitchen, that's his sacred robe that has to be kept clean and perfect insofar as possible.

If this is OK, I have a character sheet printed now (using one of the HALP IDIOT MAKE SHEET sheets) and am ready to start filling it out with details, but how should we determine starting stats for people? I read about Pathfinder 2e some; it sounds like we need to specify he is a Nomadic Halfling (kind of against his will, but still), which results in knowing more languages and makes sense with the backstory, and he has the Ancestral thing of Halfling Luck, likewise from story. This should be sufficient to turn him into quite the incipient adventurer, no?

Post by **Mike** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm

The rules for 2e character creation are here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=66

Stats are determined through boosts and flaws. Each character starts with 10 in all stats, and gets +2 to a stat for each boost and -2 for each flaw. In general, standard characters from the core rulebook will get 10 boosts and 1 flaw as follows:

A - Ancestry. This is what used to be called race. Your ancestry boosts 3 stats and provides 1 flaw. (Except humans who get 2 boosts, no flaw.)
B - Background. What did you do before being an adventurer? Your background boosts 2 stats.
C - Class. Your class boosts 1 stat.
D - Determine final scores. This is where you pick any four of your scores to boost.

So the "average" character will have stat scores of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8. Obviously, it can vary, but you never get more than one 18. And 18 is the max for a starting character.
_______________________

EXAMPLE -- MAZMUD (my character)

A - Ancestry: I chose Dwarf for ancestry. I get boosts to Constitution, Wisdom, and 1 more of my choosing. My flaw is Charisma. So I get:
STR +2, CON +2, WIS +2, CHR -2

B - Background: Sailor. One boost has to be Strength or Dexterity. The other is my choice. So I picked:
STR +2, DEX +2

C - Class: Fighter. Fighters get one boost and can choose either Strength or Dexterity. I chose Dexterity:
DEX +2

D - Determine final scores: Now I pick four stats to boost:
STR +2, DEX +2, CON +2, WIS +2

So Mazmud's final scores are STR 16, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 10, Wis 14, CHR 8
_________________________

All the rules are there in that link. There's easy shortcuts on the left, but for some of this, it might be easiest to start here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx And if you click on Core Rulebook, you get the whole thing in order, as written.

zen · Post by **zen** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:54 pm

If you want a website that will help you with it, I found one that seems to work. It even lets you choose "Core Rulebook Only" when you're starting a new character. This is the link:

https://pathbuilder2e.com/app.html

You can use it for free, or pay a small amount in order to be able to save your character to Google Drive. (Otherwise, it saves it locally and can be lost if you clear your cache.) I'm pretty sure it was something like $5. That's what I've been using for all of my attempts with Kiara and also with Kay and Eldthor's kids... (Which the original Kiara is actually going to be now, I think... since I'm planning on playing the Human version.)

EDIT: Oh, and as for the personal hygiene thing... Kiara bathes in the blood of her enemies on a regular basis, does that count? ... or is that considered a shower?

EDIT 2: Eli: Will this Bard of yours have thievery skills by any chance? I've removed those from Kiara with the latest Incarnation of the character, so we might need some if Tahlvin's playing the Wizard. We probably need the spell casting too.. of course, we have yet to hear from Andrew or SB and Bill's still deciding as well...

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:24 am

Thievery? I'm not sure I appreciate what you are implying by that particular question. I dabble in the trade of information, and sometimes that means I need to get myself into... and out of... places. And maybe that means I help myself to some things that would be better used by others. And maybe, just maybe you shouldn't leave something valuable in a chest that is so easily opened. Because that's just a lack of security, not what I would call Thievery.

Also, fow what it's worth, we don't really need to worry about 'covering all the skills.'. We have enough people that everything is going to be covered anyway, and if we have a hole, we'll just have to do some creative problem solving. I think everyone should play the character they want to play.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:09 am

Mike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm The rules for 2e character creation are here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=66

This is very helpful, thank you! The sheet I have is trying to walk me through the same process of A B C D but without much explanation of how all this works. I have a couple of questions for you or anyone who knows:

Can you boost the SAME skill more than once in your D/final four? Or do you have to find a way to reach the heights for the ones you prefer when you select A B C?

Are there any weird crisis points you have uncovered that we should be on the lookout for, as they determine future possibilities? I'm still smarting over building a fighter who couldn't have combat expertise, so now wary of any red flags for this type of thing in Feat Trees, etc.

I assume I want to be a Cloistered Cleric (in terms of the game mechanics, if not the story - unless Cloisters are a ship's galley) because someday he could acquire things like a ring of protection or cloak or other things that give a little magical protection from attacks? Otherwise we're going a whole different direction with the warpriest, and I don't want to focus on weaponry so much as massive advanced healing skills.

It turns out when you get into which deity, which spells, etc, he is likely to end up having basic spells related to weather, like wind and lightning. So when he's not making healing stuffs, in combat situations he's either buffing people or casting those as offensive spells that come with the setup with Gozreh. Does this create any unfortunate conflicts or consequences for anyone's plan? I don't want to e.g. be casting an electricity spell that the deity hands out to followers if someone else is at risk of cancelling those effects or being harmed by them, etc.

The only thing I don't like about Gozreh is that the favored weapon is a trident, and other deities offer this basic skill in Medicine. I assume you could still choose to take a skill in Medicine, but would having it be your god's special skill confer some special status or benefit upon it? I.e. is it better to reframe your story to select a god who does Medicine instead of healing as your skill, or can you just pick Medicine and have both, no issues?

Also I know Darcs is busy with other things to deal with right now, but I don't want to get too far down the path if e.g. MrsDarcs or Anna (dementia, what is this man's name apart from the wizard?! I know it!) wants to be a Cleric, as I honestly could go different directions and be vey happy with the underlying concept.

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:13 am

LORD THIS IS CONFUSING. I was good with Ability - Feat - Skill - Trait
Now we have... a whole nest of them and all of them are tethered to what you chose for background and class and deity (for clerics it matters a lot!) and so forth. So much here, so very confusing. My biggest question:

Can I simply CHOOSE to have skills in medicine and focus on healing stuff, or are all skill trainings determined completely by what you are picking in this ABCD of your history? Because I keep getting dribs and drabs of different skill trainings or future options, but it's not clear how they play out or what can be added optionally. I really like Medicine and also wish to be able to create Potions, which it seems like I'm on track to do, but I can't figure out what else you need to do to create potions later.

The other thing is... Gozreh's favored weapon is a trident, and Gozreh is a THEY rather than a HE, and I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to have a halfling version of a Trident that functions as some other, smaller weapon (like a knife, or some poking weapon) in terms of how it works and does damage, but is shaped like a three-tined carving fork. I own multiple such items actually! They would make a great weapon. It seems silly to have a halfling cook running around with a small trident, but a very large carving fork with pointy ends? Yes.

Eliahad · Post by **Eliahad** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:15 am

What is a trident but a long fork? The perfect implement for a gourmand!

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:22 am

Exactly.

EDITED: I have resolved my issues to my satisfaction. Just going ALL IN on healing font, medicine skill, WIS, CHA, and busting ALL OF IT out at once. If anyone thinks it is unwise to build a cleric who is both a healer in the cleric side and dropping investment into the whole Medicine skill path, let me know, but it looks like they offer healing capacity in different situations so essentially, with both spells and medicine, you are covering all the bases. And another player can choose medicine in case my dude (weak) is incapacitated in battle, because medicine will be helpful and powerful.

But I'm cool with doing both, letting much of the clerical healing come from the Fount, using Battle Medicine as much as possible, and adding some kickass air spells for which I have no story yet but I can only imagine something will present itself, one way or another. Indeed, it works pretty well to imagine that this dude was inspired with divine capacities for healing but has spent most of his time actually working to develop Battle medicine, which he accomplishes through medicinal poultices and foods. You can actually hand a healing cake to someone as your mode of doing battle medicine, right? But then divine clerical healing seems better for situations where you need to do it in combat, and maybe a "reach" feat is needed to touch people with your healing (help, no idea how that works).

zen · Post by **zen** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:11 am

Eliahad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:24 am Thievery? I'm not sure I appreciate what you are implying by that particular question. I dabble in the trade of information, and sometimes that means I need to get myself into... and out of... places. And maybe that means I help myself to some things that would be better used by others. And maybe, just maybe you shouldn't leave something valuable in a chest that is so easily opened. Because that's just a lack of security, not what I would call Thievery.

Also, fow what it's worth, we don't really need to worry about 'covering all the skills.'. We have enough people that everything is going to be covered anyway, and if we have a hole, we'll just have to do some creative problem solving. I think everyone should play the character they want to play.

After all, if we can't unlock that door we have a sailor with two war hammers...

Phoebe wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:09 am
Mike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:39 pm The rules for 2e character creation are here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=66
This is very helpful, thank you! The sheet I have is trying to walk me through the same process of A B C D but without much explanation of how all this works. I have a couple of questions for you or anyone who knows:

Can you boost the SAME skill more than once in your D/final four? Or do you have to find a way to reach the heights for the ones you prefer when you select A B C?

EDIT: Not sure how much this will help, since I started typing it before the past few posts came in and got kind of sidetracked on a rant... but... you guys know me by now... anyway, feel free to skip the rant if you want...

Nope, your final four have to be different skills, sadly enough. Also, your Ancestry skills need to be different as well. For instance, Kiara, being a human in all incarnations first and foremost, since Half-Elf is a heritage in 2.0, gets 2 abilities for ancestry.

They default to STR +2 and DEX +2 and I've left them as such.

For Bounty Hunter, I had to choose between STR +2 and WIS +2 and had one free choice. I chose STR +2 and, in the most recent version, INT +2.

Then for the class ability boost, I took DEX +2, the other option was STR.

Then for the four free choices, I took:
STR +2
DEX +2
INT +2
CON +2

leading to:
STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 10

I toyed with dropping STR down one and upping WIS, since she uses a Finesse weapon as her primary weapon and, even if she replaces it, she will probably replace it with another finesse weapon, and most likely an agile one. (The only reason she would do that is if it were magical. I purposefully didn't plan out any feats that count on two-handed weapons being required for them.) As she is, though, she could switch to a two-handed reach weapon without any loss in efficiency, so she could always consider that in the long run as well. That was the main reason I chose to keep her STR and DEX even. Since there are four ability increases at a time, she'll increase them both when we get to do it, so at 5th level, she'll become:

STR 18
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10 or 12
CHA 10 or 12

Depending on whether WIS or CHA seems more appropriate at the time.

For the next increase, I'll have to decide whether to do the 1 point increase for STR and DEX or boost the other four by 2 each. It probably depends on the status of magical items... I get the feeling that, in 2.0 at least, magical items are harder to come by, but since we're doing a 1.0 adventure path adjusted to 2.0, I'm not sure if that will hold true... or if that is the case at all... maybe I'm just judging based on the perceived decrease in overall numbers based on the changes to the skill system.

(Let me explain longwindedly: Changing from adding skill ranks at each level to a variety of skills based on your class and INT to getting a limited number of skill increases at set points in the leveling process, where you can increase a SINGLE skill up one notch, first from Trained to Expert, then eventually from Expert to Master, then eventually to Legendary at the much higher levels, means that the skill modifiers are, by necessity, much lower than they were in 1.0. However, looking into it in more detail, I'm not sure that I'm right... I did a little test. Here is the link to Kay's character sheet from 8th level, which is the oldest one I can find a copy of:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4y20schdzqkwd ... 4.pdf?dl=0

She was a nice, even 4/4 Rogue/Sorcerer at that time.

You'll notice that her DEX was already an insane 22, which means she had magical enhancement, so drop her DEX based stats down by 2 when comparing with the following character sheet that I'm about to link, which is Kiara's father, Kendal Fordyce, an 8th level rogue at the age of 45. Noble background, Thief Racket, skilled in stealth from his "Skilled Heritage". (Just doing this small test build of a rogue almost made me want to switch... it looks fun. Not to mention that it looks like they've built the "Arcane Trickster" concept into the base rogue character options, with the potential to add small magicks to the character fairly early on.) In any case, here's the link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5gprafh8nkuiq ... 8.pdf?dl=0

And, for an additional bit of comparison, here's a 5th level example of Kiara's adoptive mother, Kiaranel:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hvznu1fbwa83k ... 5.pdf?dl=0

So, as suspected, looking at the skill levels, Kay's top skills... the ones that she put ranks in at every level (Disable Device and Acrobatics) are higher, even after removing magical enhancement, than Kendal's. However, they are only higher by a couple of points, not as much as I was expecting. In addition, for most of the other skills, Kendal is mostly higher than Kay, though, to be fair, he's a full rogue and she's a rogue/sorcerer, so that's to be expected. The real telling one is weapon ability, where Kay's MAGICAL weapon attack score is WAY lower than Kendal's not-even-masterwork weapon attack score, but, once again, she's half sorcerer. Maybe comparing to a slightly lower-level character would be better, so let's look at the fifth level Kiaranel... the fighter... oh... yeah... fighter... never mind.... she's almost got a higher attack score than Kendal... However, this brings up what I wanted to point out here: PROFICIENCY drives this system!

Look at Kiaranel's weapon skills. You'll notice that her score with the Elven Curve Blade is higher than the others. That's because her 5th level Fighter Weapon Mastery choice was "Swords", which gives her Master level skill with all swords, increasing her scores for just that group. These same proficiencies work with all skills and the base score shifts by the character level. This means that unlike in 1.0, where you had to choose which skills to increase each level by applying ranks to them, each skill increases naturally as your character advances in level. Periodically, you chose specific skills to give extra attention to and advance further to attain more skill. So, unlike my initial take on the system, it doesn't seem to have a general decrease in skill points, but an overall increase in skill level broadly while making it more difficult to make skills have insanely high bonuses.... or at least that's how I see it...

And I think I'm ranting...

zen · Post by **zen** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 am

Eliahad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:15 am What is a trident but a long fork? The perfect implement for a gourmand!

"Filcher’s Fork: This halfling weapon looks like a
long, two-pronged fork and is used as both a weapon
and a cooking implement."

I see no reason why there couldn't be a three-pronged version for worshipers of particular gods...

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:16 am

zen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:39 am
Eliahad wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:15 am What is a trident but a long fork? The perfect implement for a gourmand!
"Filcher’s Fork: This halfling weapon looks like a
long, two-pronged fork and is used as both a weapon
and a cooking implement."

I see no reason why there couldn't be a three-pronged version for worshipers of particular gods...

OMG yes! So perfect. This also protects the sacred chef's knife from being touched for any weapon use. Imagine this guy having to fend off some drunken fool who is smashing around - he's going to reach for that carving fork while wanting to keep his precious knives out of it! Honestly all of my carving forks in real life have three prongs, so it really is just a lovely thing. Tiny tridents. I hope Darcs approves of these messages!

Thank you also for explaining how things work with the skills - this also reassures me that I can maintain a relatively low intellect for this character because he will naturally develop in the narrow range of skills he cares about, while not needing all of the other bonuses that come from intellect. Classic case of wisdom without the book learning, and the type of chef who has slightly better than average dexterity for knife skills, but makes better choices about ingredients and techniques in order to achieve results. We are not here to put on a cooking show by cutting onions; we are here to make powerful healing soups!

So it would go maybe like this:
18 wis
14 cha (for the healing font)
14 con
12 dex
12 int
8 str

Post by **Mike** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:35 am

Yeah, Zen's right, you can only boost any given stat once in each stage.

He says "unfortunately", but I see it as a perk. Characters are more balanced and more compatibly playable in my mind.

zen · Post by **zen** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:33 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:35 am Yeah, Zen's right, you can only boost any given stat once in each stage.

He says "unfortunately", but I see it as a perk. Characters are more balanced and more compatibly playable in my mind.

The only downside I see to this method is that it makes it harder to create more "interesting" builds where a character has some truly outstanding abilities and some outrageous flaws... see Illian and Dothan for examples.

EDIT: The website I've been using has an option to use "Optional Flaws", but it seems to have restrictions on which abilities can be put as flaws. It also, for humans at least, is "Two Flaws, One Bonus" for ancestry, which is a bit harsh. For instance, if I chose that option, it would result in Kiara having:
STR: 14 down from 16
DEX: 14 down from 16
CON: 14 up from 12
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

So a net loss of 1 bonus point for skills, etc... and, if I really wanted to boost my CON, I could do that in favor of STR without sacrificing DEX. Not sure what the point of that option is...

Post by **Mike** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:08 pm

Yeah, but if you want that and you have someone as awesome as DMDarcs, it's just a matter of "work it out with the DM". This discourages using charisma or intelligence as a dump stat in games where figure you can role-play around the deficiencies on the paper.

Most importantly to me though is the ability to create fair characters without forcing everyone to roll stats in front of the GM.

zen · Post by **zen** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:42 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:08 pm Yeah, but if you want that and you have someone as awesome as DMDarcs, it's just a matter of "work it out with the DM". This discourages using charisma or intelligence as a dump stat in games where figure you can role-play around the deficiencies on the paper.

Most importantly to me though is the ability to create fair characters without forcing everyone to roll stats in front of the GM.

Good point! And I like the balanced feel of the characters as well. Some day I'll play a character with reasonable WIS, though... it's been ages since I played a ranger or druid...

Post by **Mike** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:58 am

Zen, I like human Kiara a lot. She's my favorite of all your suggestions and builds so far.

The only thing I'm missing is a couple sentences about personality. I mean, I can imply things from the detailed history and proto-kiara. But since the other Kiara officially figures in new Kiara's backstory, I don't want to make assumptions. I'm gathering professional, mercenary, adventurous. Young (22-25?) but solidly independent. Preference for women.

Do your descriptions and sample quotes from the earlier Kiara still apply?

Phoebe · Post by **Phoebe** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:43 pm

Soooo, would it be cool if many of us had an excuse to be on a boat that is regularly sailing back and forth between Roderick's cove and Sandpoint and Magnimar, with passengers and shipments? Literally shipments oh hahahaha I amuse myself.

I don't know if this works for what Darcs has in mind, but it would also maybe be cool if we could do the work of getting ourselves together and presenting ourselves to him as a party to be tormented, lol!

zen · Post by **zen** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:57 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:58 am Zen, I like human Kiara a lot. She's my favorite of all your suggestions and builds so far.

The only thing I'm missing is a couple sentences about personality. I mean, I can imply things from the detailed history and proto-kiara. But since the other Kiara officially figures in new Kiara's backstory, I don't want to make assumptions. I'm gathering professional, mercenary, adventurous. Young (22-25?) but solidly independent. Preference for women.

Do your descriptions and sample quotes from the earlier Kiara still apply?

The new backstory (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ga9bikmduddu ... y.pdf?dl=0) has the basics of the rationale for her pragmatist attitude. There are also modified versions of the descriptions and sample quotes on the character sheet(https://www.dropbox.com/s/36oya1fgb4zcm ... a.pdf?dl=0), but they're kind of hard to read without zooming in, so here they are:

---------------------------------
Ethnicity: Varisian
Birthplace: Crying Leaf
Age: 25
Gender&Pronouns: Female/She/Her
Height: 5'6"
Weight: 130#

APPEARANCE
Her reddish-chestnut hair is cut to shoulder length, styled in a single braid to the right side. Her dagger is carried on her right hip, so she can draw it cross-body with her dominant hand, her left. She carries her bow and Elven Cuve Blade on her back, with her quiver on her left hip. She has hazel-green eyes that normally are light brown with a ring of green around the pupil, but sometimes, based on her mood it seems, they turn all green. Her face is heart-shaped and she's muscular, yet still has a feminine figure.

ATTITUDE
Kiara is a pragmatist. She prefers to deal with facts and tasks instead of lofty ideals. Many people find her cold and calculating when they first meet, but she is a loyal friend to those who don't betray that loyalty and she certainly knows how to have a good time, either through sharing a song, a game of chance, a tankard of mead, or chatting up the barmaids at the tavern.

BELIEFS
Kiara's basic belief is that one should be compensated for the work they do. She does not believe in doing good for good's sake. This is part of the reason she was drawn to the Bounty Hunter line of work. She recognizes that there are good and evil in the world and is somewhat experienced in law, but those are not motivating factors in her life that would drive her to face danger without the promise of adequate compensation.

LIKES
Singing, getting paid for a job well done, good mead, a friendly game of cards or dice, cute barmaids, cute lasses in general, magical artifacts, travel, learning new fighting techniques

DISLIKES
Do-gooders, people who take advantage of do-gooders, cheaters, welchers, staying in one place for too long, people who underestimate her, people who ask too much about her parents, people who make a big deal about her elven weapon and name

CATCHPHRASES
What's the pay?
TANSTAAFL!
Don't go expectin' somethin' for nothin'!
---------------------------------

There are a few differences, such as eye color and I took out references to dueling. And instead of it being people "making a big deal about" her parents it is people "who ask too much" about her parents that she dislikes. This would mostly be because of her father's noble background and the fact that she doesn't want any connection to him. Of course, she doesn't use his last name. I also added in a dislike for people who make a big deal about her elven weapon and elven-sounding name, since having people look at your ears when they hear your name and make snide comments gets old after a while. That's part of the reason she wears her hair in a braid... so people can clearly see her ears and they don't try to look to see if they're pointed if her hair is covering them to figure out if she's half-elven or something. She's been known to snap back at people with, "Yeah, I was raised an elf, but I was cursed by a cave pixie and turned into a human so I'd die before she does!"

Phoebe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:43 pm Soooo, would it be cool if many of us had an excuse to be on a boat that is regularly sailing back and forth between Roderick's cove and Sandpoint and Magnimar, with passengers and shipments? Literally shipments oh hahahaha I amuse myself.

I don't know if this works for what Darcs has in mind, but it would also maybe be cool if we could do the work of getting ourselves together and presenting ourselves to him as a party to be tormented, lol!

I could totally see Kiara choosing to take a ship between Sandpoint and Magnamar when she needs to go to the larger city to look for work, especially if there's a cute lass working as a steward on the ship or a regular game of cards she knows she could partake in.

I'm thinking of doing some "Evenings at the Rusty Dragon" short character bits with Kiara. I could include a couple on the boat as well, making things vague?

EDIT: Made some changes to the "Appearance" section because I changed her bow to a short bow from a crossbow because it is listed in the Elven Weapon Familiarity feat and she might as well use her favored type of weapon...

Post by **Mike** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:58 pm

I read all that previously, but I thought I remembered it as applying to Kiara the First, and didn't know if it was still true. I should pay closer attention.

Thank you.