I can't sit here and watch the media- even the mainstream media- lionize Mitch McConnell for giving such a "brave" speech rebuking Trump from the Senate floor. I can't believe I'm watching the media repeatedly show the speech of Lindsay Graham as though he was nobly standing up for democracy.
Cowards and accomplices.
These are the same people who said they would "humor" Trump and let him play out his grievances because it would amount to nothing. Lindsay Graham was an active participant in contacting election officials in swing states and trying to strong arm them into changing the vote totals. Both of these people are culpable and enabled what occurred. You can't encourage this for four years and then, when the completely predictable consequences arise, then decry it all and claim "Enough is enough! I'm out!"
These people need to be branded as political wolves and traitors. Not just McConnell and Graham, but everyone that has raised their MAGA pom poms and cheered while this environment evolved over the last four years. The hundreds of house members that voted to overturn the election. The senators that did the same. All of them. Disgusting.
Calling Out the Cowards
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I'm horrified that you said the phrase MAGA pompons because you know that's going to manifest in reality now. Someone is going to make them, in China.
Last edited by Phoebe on Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Hitler eventually turned on and disavowed his brown shirts. Here's what I'm afraid is going to happen. Politicians will say the rioters went too far and will let them be prosecuted. Then they'll go back to race baiting and vilifying anyone who isn't far right.
Violent white national incidents have been inevitable - they have been stoked up for decades, especially the last twelve years. Most people have ignored this and the increase in racism in the police. Yet demographic shifts have guaranteed that the white nationalist party would lose power at some point, triggering a response. This has been in the back of my mind for over a decade, I hope that this relatively minor incident is the worst of it. They could have easily tried an armed occupation of the Capitol. Terrorist attacks will happen in the next few months.
Most conservatives have been living in the bubble of talk radio and Fox news for far too long. Even now, many of them are telling themselves that it was really an antifa operation.* Groups of rich people have been lying to them to get them to vote based on bigotry and against their economic interests.
*antifa and BLM have an existence in conservation lore that is bizaare. In some minds, they are super powerful paramilitary organizations. Conservatives always need an enemy to point at to make people afraid and obedient. Lately, these two groups have also been around to take the blame for far right violence so people can tell themselves that their side isn't a bunch of thugs.
tldr: I think you're right that people who pushed this along right up until yesterday should be called out; but I think most of them will get away with it.
Violent white national incidents have been inevitable - they have been stoked up for decades, especially the last twelve years. Most people have ignored this and the increase in racism in the police. Yet demographic shifts have guaranteed that the white nationalist party would lose power at some point, triggering a response. This has been in the back of my mind for over a decade, I hope that this relatively minor incident is the worst of it. They could have easily tried an armed occupation of the Capitol. Terrorist attacks will happen in the next few months.
Most conservatives have been living in the bubble of talk radio and Fox news for far too long. Even now, many of them are telling themselves that it was really an antifa operation.* Groups of rich people have been lying to them to get them to vote based on bigotry and against their economic interests.
*antifa and BLM have an existence in conservation lore that is bizaare. In some minds, they are super powerful paramilitary organizations. Conservatives always need an enemy to point at to make people afraid and obedient. Lately, these two groups have also been around to take the blame for far right violence so people can tell themselves that their side isn't a bunch of thugs.
tldr: I think you're right that people who pushed this along right up until yesterday should be called out; but I think most of them will get away with it.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
The way this event is playing internationally is probably going to change some things. We are accustomed to sitting here like, WTF? Of course they're not going to accomplish a damn thing with this play-acting. But people looking on from abroad have radically different reactions and assume - whether to attack us or in shock at what we've become - that this coup attempt could have been more impactful than it was in terms of actually thwarting Biden's assumption of the Presidency.
Last edited by Phoebe on Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I love the Twitter takes from a lot of right-wing guys (including Kevin Sorbo):
(1) We're going to storm the Capitol! Listen to the president!
(2) Yeah, we're doing it!
(3) Hey guys, maybe not so much violence.
(4) It was Antifa!
(1) We're going to storm the Capitol! Listen to the president!
(2) Yeah, we're doing it!
(3) Hey guys, maybe not so much violence.
(4) It was Antifa!
Reel on a repeating loop
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I hear the anger at these people as I have it too, but I am encouraged anytime someone does the right thing.
I get that's what we should expect good deeds from everyone, but that's not the case, and I'm fine leaning to positive-reinforcement instead of too-little-too-late.
So thankyou Mitchy and your wife and others for standing up for democracy at a crucial moment in history. Now if you want to resign based on your actions leading up to this moment, I'd be cool with that.
I get that's what we should expect good deeds from everyone, but that's not the case, and I'm fine leaning to positive-reinforcement instead of too-little-too-late.
So thankyou Mitchy and your wife and others for standing up for democracy at a crucial moment in history. Now if you want to resign based on your actions leading up to this moment, I'd be cool with that.
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FlameBlade
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:31 pm
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
My thoughts about Chao and DeVos resigning at this point are: 1) it's not going to have an impact on Trump, because he doesn't really give a damn about them, 2) with less than 2 weeks remaining, it's not going to have an affect on anything, and 3) they would actually being doing much more for the country if they stayed on his cabinet and invoked the 25th amendment on him. So it's hard for me to see it as much other than last-second self-preservation on their parts.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I think the very reason they are resigning is so they don't have to answer hard questions about the 25th amendment.Tahlvin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:30 pm My thoughts about Chao and DeVos resigning at this point are: 1) it's not going to have an impact on Trump, because he doesn't really give a damn about them, 2) with less than 2 weeks remaining, it's not going to have an affect on anything, and 3) they would actually being doing much more for the country if they stayed on his cabinet and invoked the 25th amendment on him. So it's hard for me to see it as much other than last-second self-preservation on their parts.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I am deep in the cynicism about these people's motives.
Last edited by Phoebe on Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Keven McCarthy tweeted that impeaching Trump with 12 days left will only divide our country more, so he plans to speak to Biden about how they must work together to lower the temperature and unite the country to solve America's challenges.
Where the fuck was he the last 4 years when Republicans refused to work with Democrats? He has literally been one of the ones responsible for temperature being as hot as it is.
This is just more in the long line of Republicans who now realize their in the minority and are speaking out about having to work together. Fuck them all. And I say that as a former-Republican-leaning voter (I've almost always been a blue state conservative, which makes me red state liberal, or a middle of the road moderate). After the way their party has acted over the last 4 years, they can just shut the fuck up and reap what they've sowed.
Where the fuck was he the last 4 years when Republicans refused to work with Democrats? He has literally been one of the ones responsible for temperature being as hot as it is.
This is just more in the long line of Republicans who now realize their in the minority and are speaking out about having to work together. Fuck them all. And I say that as a former-Republican-leaning voter (I've almost always been a blue state conservative, which makes me red state liberal, or a middle of the road moderate). After the way their party has acted over the last 4 years, they can just shut the fuck up and reap what they've sowed.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Where was he a week ago when Biden approached both him and McConnell about how contesting the electoral college count would unnecessarily divide the nation and kill any chance of bipartisanship.
Oh wait, I know where he was-- he was meeting with the most radical GOP members and giving his approval to the plan to try to overturn the election and thwart the proper results of a fair election.
Screw him. These republicans that are complicit in the lies and misinformation need to be punished. They need to be called out and given no cover for what they've wrought. Screw them.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I am so glad that so many people and organizations are saying the right things NOW, but I'm achingly disappointed that it required an actual invasion of our halls of government with violence and death to get them to this point.
Not only did we tell you so, but we've BEEN telling you so. The FBI and others were warning specifically of this exact thing happening, and why? Well because the people involved all discussed their exact plans openly. The rhetoric used has been obviously leading us to this, but it takes actual violence and danger and death before people criticize Hawley and Cruz and the rest for talking this way. Before donors start boycotting them. Great to see it happening. Sorry it took so long. And sorry that Mitch Mcconnell and others who played along with the lies aren't getting the condemnation they deserve for their role.
But still, better belated recognition than none at all. I just hope that the momentum of this reaps results before someone re-spins it. Because we're going to eventually get to the point where this was all the work of a few whackjob bad apples and forget that 30% of America was actively and vocally supportive of ALL of this, right up until the death and dying and failure. A third of America still believes Trump won. Ugh. So much work ahead.
Not only did we tell you so, but we've BEEN telling you so. The FBI and others were warning specifically of this exact thing happening, and why? Well because the people involved all discussed their exact plans openly. The rhetoric used has been obviously leading us to this, but it takes actual violence and danger and death before people criticize Hawley and Cruz and the rest for talking this way. Before donors start boycotting them. Great to see it happening. Sorry it took so long. And sorry that Mitch Mcconnell and others who played along with the lies aren't getting the condemnation they deserve for their role.
But still, better belated recognition than none at all. I just hope that the momentum of this reaps results before someone re-spins it. Because we're going to eventually get to the point where this was all the work of a few whackjob bad apples and forget that 30% of America was actively and vocally supportive of ALL of this, right up until the death and dying and failure. A third of America still believes Trump won. Ugh. So much work ahead.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
The rank and file voter does not seem particularly persuaded by all this, but one thing it has done is given opportunity to reach people who probably would have dismissed everything you were saying before as fake news. My mission: conversion to reason at a snail's pace. I am happy to report multiple successes on this front. It is actually restorative, as each time it works a small bit of misanthropic feeling is erased.
In the meantime, The misanthropic feelings are deeply fueled by the lack of hope that anything is going to happen to Trump through the political process in the way that it should. If the Senate refuses to take up impeachment, then clearly he's not going to be impeached before the end of his term, and the cowards who are worried about being criminally implicated with him aren't going to toss his ass out via the 25th amendment. The fact that no proper accountability is going to follow is really frustrating. On the other hand, living as a woman in this society, I am deeply familiar with the lack of proper accountability for people's bad behavior. Frankly it is the norm to which I've become accustomed, so there's a limit to how upsetting it can be. More upsetting that we seem to have no hope of fixing even bigger problems of exploitation in this country that are fueling trumpism, which is exactly the wrong solution - indeed it is the very opposite of a solution!
How disturbing is it that the failsafes provided in the Constitution really don't work in practice, now that we've got the very problem they predicted on our hands? Yes, it should be an enormous burden to remove someone, discouraging the effort for trivial political reasons. But it's incredibly difficult to remove a bad actor. We have to hope enough sensible hands are functioning on deck to prevent actual disaster right now. It's not like the world is a friendly neighborhood full only of people willing to help us in our difficulty!
The news this morning is saying they will postpone impeachment in the Senate until much later, simply with the goal of not having him run again, as opposed to protecting our nation from the damage he can do in the next few days, and the obvious physical risk to the inauguration process itself. At that point it serves the political interests of Republicans in Congress far more than it serves the nation, because then they're just clearing out their main 2024 opponent, and a new race will begin between whoever can manage to kiss his ass effectively enough to persuade the base to vote for them, and who can more effectively rally the anti-Trumpers in their own party. Problem! The future of this does not look good.
Severe weaknesses of our political process have emerged: on the one hand, the paralysis of a divided and hyperpartisan Congress, and on the other hand the risks of government completely controlled by one party. If the Democrats didn't hold at least the House, God only knows how much farther all this would have gotten. I don't know what rules we need but we clearly need different rules in our legislative branch, and a far more functional and accountable legislative branch. Some of this is gerrymandering, but I think a lot of it is the profound influence of money where even a house race is extraordinarily difficult to win without massive funding.
I don't know what the answer is but it seems pretty clear that both for Trump himself and for problems in our political process the old adage of "follow the money" sure isn't going to hurt, if we're trying to figure out how to reform the situation.
In the meantime, The misanthropic feelings are deeply fueled by the lack of hope that anything is going to happen to Trump through the political process in the way that it should. If the Senate refuses to take up impeachment, then clearly he's not going to be impeached before the end of his term, and the cowards who are worried about being criminally implicated with him aren't going to toss his ass out via the 25th amendment. The fact that no proper accountability is going to follow is really frustrating. On the other hand, living as a woman in this society, I am deeply familiar with the lack of proper accountability for people's bad behavior. Frankly it is the norm to which I've become accustomed, so there's a limit to how upsetting it can be. More upsetting that we seem to have no hope of fixing even bigger problems of exploitation in this country that are fueling trumpism, which is exactly the wrong solution - indeed it is the very opposite of a solution!
How disturbing is it that the failsafes provided in the Constitution really don't work in practice, now that we've got the very problem they predicted on our hands? Yes, it should be an enormous burden to remove someone, discouraging the effort for trivial political reasons. But it's incredibly difficult to remove a bad actor. We have to hope enough sensible hands are functioning on deck to prevent actual disaster right now. It's not like the world is a friendly neighborhood full only of people willing to help us in our difficulty!
The news this morning is saying they will postpone impeachment in the Senate until much later, simply with the goal of not having him run again, as opposed to protecting our nation from the damage he can do in the next few days, and the obvious physical risk to the inauguration process itself. At that point it serves the political interests of Republicans in Congress far more than it serves the nation, because then they're just clearing out their main 2024 opponent, and a new race will begin between whoever can manage to kiss his ass effectively enough to persuade the base to vote for them, and who can more effectively rally the anti-Trumpers in their own party. Problem! The future of this does not look good.
Severe weaknesses of our political process have emerged: on the one hand, the paralysis of a divided and hyperpartisan Congress, and on the other hand the risks of government completely controlled by one party. If the Democrats didn't hold at least the House, God only knows how much farther all this would have gotten. I don't know what rules we need but we clearly need different rules in our legislative branch, and a far more functional and accountable legislative branch. Some of this is gerrymandering, but I think a lot of it is the profound influence of money where even a house race is extraordinarily difficult to win without massive funding.
I don't know what the answer is but it seems pretty clear that both for Trump himself and for problems in our political process the old adage of "follow the money" sure isn't going to hurt, if we're trying to figure out how to reform the situation.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Technically, all it has to do is pass the house, and he has been impeached. The Senate trial determines if he is to be convicted/punished. The Senate cannot act fast enough to remove him, so fine, let it move at a more deliberate pace and on Schumer's terms. It would be lovely to bar him from holding elected office, but two-thirds is still a high bar.
Regardless, he gets to go down in history as the only president to be impeached twice, only the second one-term president to lose both the presidency and control of Congress in one fell swoop, and the only sitting president to incite an insurrection against the United States government.
Regardless, he gets to go down in history as the only president to be impeached twice, only the second one-term president to lose both the presidency and control of Congress in one fell swoop, and the only sitting president to incite an insurrection against the United States government.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy stated that he believes Trump bears some responsibility for the invasion of the Capitol. He says this with a somber face and no sense of irony despite the fact that he himself tried to overthrow the election results both before and IMMEDIATELY AFTER the failed insurrection.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
After receiving death threats, Republicans say they’re afraid to vote to impeach.
Wait... so now people can get what they want from Republicans by threatening them? Why didn't Antifa think of this?
Wait... so now people can get what they want from Republicans by threatening them? Why didn't Antifa think of this?
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
These people make me sick.
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bralbovsky
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I contend that numerous legislators knew this was going to happen, and resist the impeachment because there is still expectation that Trump will be re-installed. It's not over.
If there wasn't a plague, I'd already be packing to attend.
If there wasn't a plague, I'd already be packing to attend.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I don't believe that. There may be a few of the wackadoodle QAnon legislators that believe that, but the vast majority don't. I definitely think its over for Trump, but not for white supremacy.bralbovsky wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:50 pm I contend that numerous legislators knew this was going to happen, and resist the impeachment because there is still expectation that Trump will be re-installed. It's not over.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Got anxious at the thought that at some point in the near future someone will be described as "like Trump on steroids." Then again, maybe like MegaHitler, it'll just be in a low-budget horror film.
The biggest news today is about Ivanka and pooping, so you know what that means... things have finally calmed down a little bit! Sounds safe to look away from the news for a second!
The biggest news today is about Ivanka and pooping, so you know what that means... things have finally calmed down a little bit! Sounds safe to look away from the news for a second!
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
That sounds about like these people: please be willing to risk your life for me at a moment's notice, but by the way don't you f****** dare use my toilet.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Yeah. And thanks to Pete for keying me into the story. It confirms exactly what I think of them.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
I'm sick of GOP relying on the Dem caucus to punish their members.
They think they're so smart. Have the Dems punish a bad GOP member while keeping their hands clean, and be ready to blame cancel culture if there's blowback. In the end, bad members are punished and and cheap points against your political opponent are scored.
Cowards!!!
They think they're so smart. Have the Dems punish a bad GOP member while keeping their hands clean, and be ready to blame cancel culture if there's blowback. In the end, bad members are punished and and cheap points against your political opponent are scored.
Cowards!!!
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
Well, they're not all doing that. Many GOP senators are echoing what the democrats are saying. But the house has no spine and even less leadership. They are tearing themselves apart and it's pathetic.
But I'm also tired of people talking about how brave Mitch McConnell is. This guy condoned this nuttery for years, and he's a hero for speaking out about it now? Jesus.
But I'm also tired of people talking about how brave Mitch McConnell is. This guy condoned this nuttery for years, and he's a hero for speaking out about it now? Jesus.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
He's just doing what he thinks will get him the most power moving forward. His goal is to become senate majority leader again in 2 years.
Re: Calling Out the Cowards
It's kind of like how a Lawful Evil monster makes more sense after you've had to deal with Chaotic Evil monsters.