Is Sexual Preference Genetic?

[Kyle]

I heard an interesting news podcast the other day that was talking about the increasing rate of people identifying as gay in Millenials, and even more so in Gen Z. In large part, they think this is because it has become so much more accepted (compared to how it used to be) to come out. When my son came out, he told my wife and other kid first, and said he was hesitant to tell me. My wife said, "Why? You know he's always said he wanted a gay kid?" And he said, "Yeah, he's going to make a big deal out of it and be goofy." (I still did that, by the way.)

So I think there's truth to that, right? I know that in the 80s if one of my friends came out, everyone would ostracize them and make their lives miserable. It had to be awful. In the 90s, as there was more acceptance, I'm sure it was still pretty awful. The kids I know that have come out in the last few years do it like it's no big deal- because it's not. So there has to be some element of this at play in the increasing numbers.

But the other factor they talked about is the increase in younger people thinking that sexual preference isn't just genetic. It's not necessarily that "you're born this way." But rather that there's also an element of choice-- sexual preference isn't necessarily binary and people can move on the fluid scale of sexual preference. I think there's probably a lot of truth to this also and that the answer is that there's both a genetic component and a non-genetic component.

But what was interesting in this podcast was there are some that are outright rejecting any genetic component because they find it offensive. There's a significant portion of young people that feel like it's discriminatory to say "You're born this way" because maybe they identify as gay/bi/straight now, but haven't always felt that way and maybe want to identify differently in the future. When older gay people tried to explain why it was important to stress the genetic component in the 80s and 90s (so that it could be used as a device to force straight people to acknowledge that it's wrong to discriminate against someone because they can't help the way they feel), to these kids- particularly Gen Z kids- that was ancient history that they: (1) didn't care about; and (2) were hostile to. And to them, it was like arguing some depression-era logic.

It was jarring hearing kids talk about how homophobic and small-minded it is to talk about being "born this way"-- because for me (and I assume a lot of people my age) that was really a rallying cry for gay acceptance in the 90s and 2000s. Hell, Madonna made a song about it! But as I thought about it and listened to what these kids were saying, I'm not sure that they're wrong. Is there a genetic component? Sure, maybe. But who cares. Who are we to place a negative value on someone else's sexual preference for any reason?

[Stan]

Just gonna throw out that there can be a biological basis without a direct genetic component. In utero hormone levels have been explored and birth order might have an effect. Also categorical thinking can over simplify things. One way of thinking about some of the changes is a continuous scale and the line where people have been willing to call themselves gay has shifted.

My high school had >2000 kids and no one was openly gay. Things have really improved.

[Kyle]

Just gonna throw out that there can be a biological basis without a direct genetic component.

Sure. There can also be factors that are genetic and not hereditary (my oldest son has a brittle bone condition which is genetic but not hereditary). I suppose I should use "biological" rather than "genetic" because that's what I mean whether it's one or the other.

[Mike]

I don't know enough to draw conclusions, but yeah, I think we're getting to a point where it doesn't really matter much. Or at least, by the time gen-z and post-z are all adults, I think the whole concept of having a "gender identity" or specific sexuality will feel very old-fashioned and out of touch. Like people who still say "colored people".

I assume genetics and other biological factors have a healthy influence on predisposition to... whatever. But also environment and experience shapes that predisposition. But bottom line is that people generally can't control what they find attractive. You can control your actions, but not your preferences.

I went to a high school of 1300 kids, and there was one out lesbian and one kid who everyone assumed was gay. And that was it. My older sons went to high school 5-10 years ago, and they had maybe 4 kids in a school of 140. Now my younger sons have 3 or 4 kids who identify as queer in just their close circle of friends. For them it's a non issue.

[Mike]

And on a similar note, can I just say that Harry Styles is just friggin magnetic. A glimpse of the future.

[poorpete]

I can only go based on what others say and my personal experience (didn't care about girls and liked hanging out with boys until one day I really really cared about girls in a way I never cared about boys. I still don't get how that happened. The thought of kissing was gross!).

Here's where I speculate and I could be totally wrong....

My biggest genetic fear was that I'd be schizophrenic like my older brother. I was relieved when it never showed, but if they ever discover a spectrum, I'd not be surprised if I'm I dunno lightly on it. Is my attention deficit and anxious and shy tendencies related? Shrug!

Anyways, so this is where I bring up twins. Genetically identical, but there are cases where only one is schizophrenic. The thought is there's a switch or series of switches, and I was born with these switches, but for me, all the switches weren't turned in that combination. I wonder if we are all born with sexuality switches, and maybe some are already switched at birth but others are switched on for environmental reasons.

[Phoebe]

Being picky about terminology, I would say sexual preferences and possible sources of "arousal" aren't predetermined before birth, but sexual orientations largely are. Preferences are mostly mutable and orientations are mostly fixed.
By that I mean most people are born with a gay-lesbian-bisexual orientation that may or may not match their actual behaviors, and it usually doesn't change over a lifetime or because of cultural influences, although behavior is a different story.

[bralbovsky]

We know more about space than we know about our brains.

If it's chemical, it's likely that it's at least remotely a product of gene expression.
So one twin gets cancer, the other no (and ya, I'm not comparing preference even remotely to cancer). The complex interplay of genes and environment creates a multiplicity of results.
Roughly 10% of salmon get lost. They find themselves in rivers they only thought were theirs. The good news is, if their real river filled with ice, their genetic line can still survive because they got lost.
Out of norm features, ie sickle cell, show up all over the place for mysterious reasons. Sometimes we can theorize their benefit.

Romantic/sexual attraction is geometrically more complex. It's social/cultural, it's chemical.... It's influenced by media and alcohol and tradition and peers....
My speculation is that, like lots of brain stuff, it runs on a multilane spectrum. Genetics, birth order, family, time of life....all feed variables into the system. Some indigenous North American cultures are centuries ahead on recognizing the fluidity and variety of the laws of attraction. More genders, more recognition that they can change.

I'd agree that we are born this way, but just like lots of little kids want to be firefighters or teachers, as their horizons expand, they understand that other choices are available, and as the future careens toward us, more choices are acceptable.

[poorpete]

This thread may continue, but we could just end it with bralbovsky's great post, summing it up IMO.