Filibuster

[Phoebe]

Should the Democrats just be rid of it and then do whatever they have to do with the idiots in their caucus, to make progress?
I have heard decent arguments for both sides. My inclination is that they should get rid of it, but that's because I assume the other side will always cause as much damage as humanly possible and it makes no difference what Democrats do, in that regard. They have already demonstrated willingness to do this. I also think without federal legislation on things like voting rights and some other key parts of the agenda, there's no hope of keeping hold of the House and Senate, some might as well go for broke and get 'er done.
Am I missing something here though?

[Kyle]

I know this sounds crass, but this is an issue I just don't care about. And I'm not saying this to shit on the thread- because I know a lot of people think this is really important. But since we've restored a moderate sense of normalcy with our government, I've taken a step back and reevaluated how important I think a lot of "hot button" political issues are to me right now. And the answer is kind of this: outside of Covid (which I think is currently being handled okay), there's not much going on in politics that motivates me.

I feel like the issue of the filibuster is one of these politically divisive issues that are being used to pit people against each other. But at its heart its really "the most politics" of politics, right? It's not even about a policy issue. It's just pure politics. And I don't know that it's healthy for our politicians to be baiting people against each other with stuff like "Oh no! What about the filibuster!" If they get rid of it? Fine. If they keep it and try to focus on bipartisonship? Fine. It's not like either decision is going to stop the doublespeak and personal grasps for power that politicians make under the mask of "justice."

[Tahlvin]

I'd love to get rid of it, but I'll settle for revising it to something like a talking filibuster. Republicans have shown they have no problem exploiting the majority in the Senate when they hold it, no matter how slim. Dems should do the same while they have the chance. And while I get where Kyle's coming from, and would love to be able to take the same stance, I think this is a case where Dems have a small window to make some big changes, like voting rights, that can have big effects down the road.

[Mike]

I think this nation desperately needs some election/voting reforms. The playing field is tipped so far that currently the GOP can lose by 5-7 points and that is still enough to hold all the power in government. If democrats do nothing, this imbalance will become worse. And dems can't do anything about it without nerfing the filibuster. So they should.

However, I think that even without the filibuster, there are enough "moderate" democrats in the senate that reform may still not pass, and even if it does, it has a fair chance of being pretty toothless.

On the other side, if dems kill the filibuster, the GOP will definitely try to use it to run roughshod over the dems. But I also think that if the dems DON'T kill the filibuster, this conversation has opened the door, and McConnel will still kill it himself when he has the chance and use it to run roughshod over the opposition.

So I have a dream in which we kill the filibuster and use that power to pass serious voting and apportionment reforms, but I don't have a lot of hope for success, and I don't see losing or keeping the filibuster having a serious effect on how the GOP acts in the future. And I agree with Kyle that it's not a productive fight to have in the public forum.

[Phoebe]

Obviously the other solution is to organize like crazy to defeat disenfranchisement efforts, but it's very difficult and the playing field is so uneven.

One concerning thing from my vantage point is that if we continue much longer with Republicans refusing to govern and people unable to accomplish basic needed measures through the democratic process, the level of anger is going to become something truly dangerous, and not just on the right but on the left. I've heard a lot of media takes now about how the assault on the Capitol was emboldening to others of similar far right persuasion, but much less talk about how emboldening it also was to the left. The general sense I get from people on that side is, fine, the enemy has shown itself for what it truly is and now whatever we do in response is justified. These people watched their own summer of protests spark real change which then didn't get very far in most places. These are not people who give much of a s*** about Trump or Biden. So while it may seem to me that we have restored an opportunity for solutions and should seize the moment, a lot of people are still exactly as angry as they were a year ago and don't see anything being fixed.

The pandemic has taken politics in some weird unexpected directions too - like for example, I live in an extremely Republican neighborhood, and the anger at one of our Republican representatives who refused to support a mask mandate has been intense and lasting. Multiple people sprang up to run opposed and have already raised thousands for local races that normally don't garner much interest. The entire neighborhood is full of yard signs like it's still the Presidential election. It encourages me because for the past year we've seen only the covid spreaders out and about, running their mouths. But a silent majority of Republicans turns out to fear viruses as well, if we judge by my neighbors. I doubt it translates to other matters, but here we have isolated the issue because the only thing our representative was known for is being pissy about masks.

[FlameBlade]

Make them talk. Seriously. And it must be on the bill itself, not green hams and eggs.

[Phoebe]

I cannot even begin with that. Suffice to say they did not ban the Dr. Seuss Dictionary, so everyone discussing that issue can go straight to Hell without passing GO. Any mention of it in Congress should be an automatic disqualification to serve in public office.

[bralbovsky]

Make them talk, make sure you keep film of everything so it can be used against them.

add Puerto Rico and DC statehood, which creates a small buffer

Sprinkle in strategic aid for Texas or other business that they can't bear to impede. Play hardball. It's the only way. Dems already have to beat the spread in order to win in most places, even blue states. It's really the only way to stop the slide toward fascism. Also, find better candidates. A talking shoe would have been better than the woman the Dems posted in my district last year, of course, the cowardly incumbent managed to pull past in a near tie (gotta beat the spread, even in blue states). Mansion and his ilk have to be handled delicately though. If you field a really strong primary candidate, he'll just switch parties.