Two Debate Comments

[Phoebe]

A lot of noise is now heard about the wild racist accusations against the (fully legal!) immigrants supposedly eating Pets, and rightly so. But two other things he said were even more distressing imo. One was that when asked about how he plans to deport tens of millions of people, he agreed that he envisions police going door to door, finding people. My God. And then what? They'll have to put people back in the border detention areas - even bigger, even more, and probably what they were doing before with groups kept in rooms at closed motels and such. That's the nightmare nazi stuff he seemed capable of all along but wasn't able to reach - the plan has probably long since been in Stephen millers bedside drawer. If elected - which still seems a fairly likely possibility - I have no doubt they'll set about doing it. They know enough to hide it, too. Rapid response teams are already forming to try to protect people or handle emergencies, like when Mom and Dad are suddenly deported and kids are left behind.

The second thing is relevant even (or especially) if he loses: he still believes he won and he referred to the J6 insurrectionists including Babbitt as "our side". Huh. It seemed like an accident despite his past praise for her and other J6 criminals. Like he skipped the gala celebration of J6ers he was supposed to headline, since at least someone recognized how bad that looks. But it's clearly a thin line and soon it will be crossed. My assumption is that they won't be waiting until January this time? And he has nothing to lose then - this is his last try at the office so no holding back if he can't win.

[Phoebe]

I do not Twitter so I don't know what the details are but I'm told that Flavor Flav posted a warning to the pet shop boys, snoop dog and pitbull. I love Flavor Flav and I don't care what anybody says.

The downside of the story being so freaking hilarious is that people will talk about it instead of talking about how Trump wants the police and military to round up illegal immigrants by going house to house and pulling them off buses and everything. Which is complicated by the fact that they think everybody they dont want is an illegal immigrant even when they're not!!!

But putting that aside, the great thing about this story is that they can't ever admit error so they have to double and triple and quadruple down on it. If the emperor says he's wearing clothes then by God he's wearing clothes!!!

[Mike]

9% of Americans don't have proof of citizenship and for a good chunk of them, acquiring such proof would be a hardship due to cost, time/travel, and/or complexity of the process. And if you don't have a passport, then most people's proof of citizenship is their birth certificate, a document with no identifying information to prove that it belongs to the bearer. I see our highly educated deportation squads routinely calling them fake and locking people up anyway But only if they're brown.

[Kyle]

In Texas we have a voter ID law. Which, on it's own seems reasonable- right? Prove you are who you say you are to vote. Except...

I got a notice in August that I have to renew my drivers license in person by December (in person because I need a new photo). Why did they send it to me so early? Because the closest appointment I can make with the DPS (Texas' version of the DMV) is 2-3 months out and it's telling me I have to drive to a city that's 50 miles away.

It's clear to me what the intention behind voter ID laws are- to keep poor people from voting.

[Phoebe]

We have a voter ID law and while it includes things like identification cards issued by a nursing home or assisted living, it's clearly an enormous burden for people who don't drive and have any kind of health issues to obtain an ID card. I went through the training to be a poll worker in November and all kinds of special provisions need to be made for any discrepancy with the voter ID law. The practical reality is that their ballots won't be counted until the very end. By that time most of the races will have been called or even formally conceded. It's concerning given how close some of the margins are particularly in local races. Everybody's going to have to wait till the bitter end of the counting unless the gap is too large to cross with the remaining ballots.

But the real problem is that it takes specialized training to understand what's going to happen if you have any issue with voting - there are measures in place to preserve the voters' rights but most voters won't know anything about it! So if they have a suspicion they aren't equipped with the proper ID they just won't show up and try.

[Phoebe]

Resurrecting a perfectly serviceable debate thread:
When they started, Vance seemed pretty smooth and Walz seemed pretty nervous, and I wasn't super impressed by either one. Could be biased because Vance grates my nerves and my body sends up a chemical message of "flight". But as time went on they went through a weird role reversal and seemed to come to some sort of common ground of mutual respect and courtesy, and then totally out of the blue Walz dropped the boom in the very last few seconds and I am left amazed. I don't know if it strikes Average Voter who is Unmotivated to Vote the way it strikes me but WOW. Dude may stumble around and bs about some stuff but when he gets genuinely indignant and drops a truth, he really drops it. Maybe the rehearsed portions took him too far out of his element, and the more we got the relaxed and genuine him, the better he got. Maybe it was just me who took that last line about defending democracy to heart. They wanted to hang Mike Pence, and we know there are crazies out there who will say anything at all, but who would ever have thought a major mainstream candidate and party would be excusing all of this? I can't get over the shock of all that.