I still like Firefly

[Mike]

Okay, the show's treatment of Inara and other companions has been problematic for me since the first time I saw it, but otherwise, for the most part... I still like Firefly.

Even though Joss Whedon has to keep demonstrating what a horrible person he is.

It is a fascinating article. If you have interest, I recommend reading the whole thing. It paints a picture of a very bad and very damaged man. He is very self-aware and yet also completely not. It's a creepy portrait

[Kyle]

Before the abusive allegations came out, he was always known as an egotistical ass who would never admit to making mistakes and blaming everyone else. (No really! Dollhouse was brilliant until the studio ruined it!) This only confirms what a tool he is. I can't separate this artist from his work now, especially considering how he puts female empowerment at the forefront of his work.

[Phoebe]

The first time I heard about this I was having a moment of self-doubt generally and I don't mind selfishly taking a little benefit from the story. It's like being given back a little for all the BS of real life: He seemed like exactly this kind of ass to me from day one. So luckily one of my detecting functions is functioning.

[Kyle]

The first time I heard about this I was having a moment of self-doubt generally and I don't mind selfishly taking a little benefit from the story. It's like being given back a little for all the BS of real life: He seemed like exactly this kind of ass to me from day one. So luckily one of my detecting functions is functioning.

I remember the first time I heard him interviewed. It was post Firefly, but around when they were talking about getting the movie made, or maybe after it came out. The height of the Browncoat bullshit. Anyways, I knew nothing about him personally, but loved Buffy and Angel (Both are in my top three shows of all time, even though I'm not sure I can watch them now). So it was a long form podcast interview with an actor (maybe Ricky Lindholme from Garfunkle and Oates, but I might be wrong). The interview was long, like an hour and I remember how much I loathed him after listening to it. He was as smug, self entitled and egotistical as you presently think he is. Just an awful, narcissistic person. It was a real "Don't meet your heroes" moment for me. And this was long before any of the allegations came out. He's just terrible.

[Mike]

I had never seen an interview with him before the last few years. I got to be blissfully ignorant.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it was tough to hear such garbage coming from the same guy that made Doctor Horrible.

[Mike]

Crap. I forgot about Dr. Horrible. I was thinking Whedon stuff that I have particular affection for, and I got Firefly and Cabin in the Woods, but totally forgot Dr. Horrible. Yuck.

[Phoebe]

I came to his content diagonally long after the fact, so rather than falling in love with the story and actors for the first time, for me I would just drop in on weird scenes like Buffy dealing with creepy relationships, or his irritating take on Much Ado about nothing, so I encountered those things first as the creation of a hostile entity.
In other cases it's too late. Like why DID Lewis Carroll get so engrossed with these young girls? I don't know but it's too late to worry about it because I came to appreciate it when I was as young as possible.
There are lots of examples like this.
Or people like JK Rowling who have gone bonkers. I'll claim the parts I liked and nyahnyahnyah too bad for her. They're mine now. Remus Lupin I'm looking at ya.

[Phoebe]

Joss Whedon did not make ANY of this and this is what made Firefly good, among other things:

[Kyle]

True dat.

[DMDarcs]

Ultimately, Joss Whedon is one person of many that contributed to Firefly (or Buffy, Angel, Dr. Horrible, Avengers, Cabin in the Woods, or whatever). And you're allowed to not like it because of that one person's involvement. You're also still allowed to like it for the contributions of the other creators.

[Kyle]

Ultimately, Joss Whedon is one person of many that contributed to Firefly (or Buffy, Angel, Dr. Horrible, Avengers, Cabin in the Woods, or whatever). And you're allowed to not like it because of that one person's involvement. You're also still allowed to like it for the contributions of the other creators.

Agreed. But personally I can't separate it considering how strong Whedon's (now hypocritical) voice was in the projects.

[Mando]

To quote one of my favorite leathernecks:

"Show me a hero and I'll prove he's a bum''

Greg "Pappy" Boyington

[Kyle]

To quote one of my favorite leathernecks:

"Show me a hero and I'll prove he's a bum''

Greg "Pappy" Boyington

I get that, but its like excusing bad behavior. Because I can show you heroes that aren't bums, no matter how close you scrutinize them. Mike is a hero. He's an awesome guy that sincerely cares about all of us and our well being. He's always positive and tries to always be respectful of others. He's a hero. Not a bum. Mr Rogers. A hero and not a bum. You can just be a hero.

[Mando]

That...was not my point

I am sorry if I stepped on your toes.

[Kyle]

Nah, I get what you're saying. No worries.

[Phoebe]

Do we prefer a hero or an antihero?

[Kyle]

I'm over antiheroes.

[Mike]

Agreed. Antiheroes glorify being a terrible (sometimes outright evil) person, because they get the job done.

Antiheroes can be entertaining, but viewers/readers shouldn't want to be them.

[Tahlvin]

And that is why we have a sizeable number of police officers who proudly wear the Punisher logo on their uniforms.

[Mike]

And that is why we have a sizeable number of police officers who proudly wear the Punisher logo on their uniforms.

[Phoebe]

This is freaking hilarious and... sadly apt. I'm not arguing people haven't always been this way, but lately there's a strong drumbeat of discourse around "yes it was deadly vigilantism but the victim was... (fill in blanks, a thug, a criminal, whatever)". Luckily I can say with some evidence, at least Nurses do not think this way, almost at all.

[Mando]

...but I still like Firefly, just like I enjoy many shows that are made and include people who are diametrically opposed to my world view.

Just because a person has a different lifestyle than myself, a different worldview, or even is just a rotten human being doesn't mean it gets splashed on me for enjoying their work. If someone feels differently than me that's their business.

[Mando]

And that is why we have a sizeable number of police officers who proudly wear the Punisher logo on their uniforms.

For the record I too detest the skulls being put on everything. It is a sign of what I call testosterone poisoning. So many so called manly men have tied their sense of manhood to their ability to do violence or the size of their gun collection. I think it is a front and that there are some serious issues that need therapy lying behind it. We could all use a bit of that, but this is an actual sign that someone paid money for and placed prominently for all to see.
This could be a good thread all on its own..."Manliness...you'se doing it wrong"

[Phoebe]

Could not agree with you more, MAN-DO (it just seemed so appropriate): these guys seem tense lately. I want to tell them they are doing okay. Please relax. I listen to the radio station here that was the former home of Rush Limbaugh, or I guess the home of the former Rush Limbaugh? The late? Anyway, the primary source of advertisement supporting that radio station has to do with men and their testosterone levels. I couldn't even tell you what the heck it's about, but lots of oblique references to things like not feeling as much like a champion as you once did and wanting to turn over a new leaf for 2022 and be your most powerful and effective self! Apparently testosterone is the key. But as a lay person who does not research the endocrine system, might I gently suggest looking into a big jolt of progesterone? If anything is going to lead to championship levels of combat, that's it.
I guess I should give thanks they aren't talking about soy and milk, because that's what comes next for the younger fashy generation. And you know what that means? They all have poor diets and lots of gas and bloating.*
Guys in their giant trucks also need to stop tailgating people like maniacs.
I am not a slow driver and it's just out of hand these days.
* Edited to add: do not take dietary advice from Jordan Peterson or any of his family members! And now that you know how that nonsense turned out, why is anyone taking any advice from any of these ding dongs?
If you want some manly advice read Aristotle or the Stoics and settle down, Beavis.

[Mando]

If you want some manly advice read Aristotle or the Stoics and settle down, Beavis.

That reminds me of the guy in Stripes who WANTED to be called Psycho to seem tough.
Or as they said in Stripes: "Lighten up, Francis>"

[Mando]

[DMDarcs]

What are thoughts on Harry Potter?

[Kyle]

JK Rowling is the worst. As much as I loved the books, her bigotry has ruined them for me.

[Mando]

Harry Potter - love em
The Ender series by Orson Scott Card - love em
LotR - love em
The music of Queen - Love it


I enjoy the creation even if the creators are creepy according to other people.

My opinions are my own

I am Mando and I approve this post.

[Mando]

There is a lot of similarity to her work and Lucas' though

[DMDarcs]

Listening to a podcast, and one of hosts said that they do not play Michael Jackson songs at home for their young child, because of MJ's child molestation charges. It is something he feels uncomfortable with; he did not want to financially support the MJ estate with Spotify listens. This is perfectdly fine. He then raised the question of whether or not it was okay for their kid to listen to the Jackson 5, as that was music that would have been made before any of the molestation charges would have happened. I will admit, I zoned out at that time (due to ice shoveling), but I also had another thought.

The Children's Workshop almost went completely bankrupt in the 80's because of a lost lawsuit. Their skit with the song "Letter B" by the Beetles was deemed to be similar to "Let It Be" by the Beatles. They argued parody, jokes for the parents, but ultimately lost. Michael Jackson swooped in and paid the fine that would have bankrupted them because he strongly believed in the mission statement of Sesame Street, and thought it should have continued. If you are not financially supporting MJ, and decide not to financially support Jackson 5, are you also then obligated to not support Sesame Street?

Next thought: I used to live near a second-run theater that would also show smaller, independent films and documetaries that the larger cinemas would not. I remember going to see Fahrenheit 9/11 opening weekend, and waiting in a line that literally went around the block. (This never happened, and was why I used to see 2 or 3 movies a week - they were cheap and no waiting.) I remember a young, college aged woman - whom I would probably derisively refer to as a hippie - explaining to the people she was in line with how she was boycotting Disney (for some reason or the other). She also talked about all the sitcoms she loved watching on ABC. Maybe she didn't realize ABC was in big time cahoots with DIsney (I don't think they were owned by Disney at the time) -- but isn't this an issue as well?

Random thought three: I just gained more respect for the Black Panthers. I was listening to a podcast about them last night, and the presenters were talking about the various groups that the Panthers allied with. Women's rights groups, gay rights, Latino rights, and CONFEDERATE SYMPATHIZERS. Woah, that one caught me off guard, and the information was definitely presented in a manner to do so. But they did so because, in their minds, those sympathizers were an oppressed minority and should have been allowed to express their views without fear of the systematic opression from the government. I think that thought was meant to tie into my other thoughts here, but I don't remember why I got on this train, and don't really want to delete the travelogue. Maybe someone else can finish the dot connecting.