World Central kitchen is this charity founded by chef Jose Andres, which has been on the scene delivering essential food aid after natural disasters and in conflict zones around the world. Everybody knows them, everybody works with them - It's a group established and supported by the people who make the best food, who feel a powerful obligation to get food to everyone who needs it.
They're one of the few groups successfully delivering food aid in Gaza, and they've been working with the IDF for a while now to do this. Their movements are constantly monitored - they have to coordinate all the time directly with the IDF in order to operate in Gaza. There's no way for a convoy of three aid vehicles who are going to set up a delivery site to be moving through that area without IDF cooperation.
Instead, the IDF targeted and destroyed one of their vehicles, which was clearly marked on the roof and sides. It was a direct hit - no accident related to targeting some other building in the area. And then, they waited until the second vehicle in the convoy hurried to help the people in the first one, and they targeted that one too! And then the third vehicle, doubtless realizing that they were being targeted, tried to escape and also were hit. This took place over a period of time - It wasn't all just one big explosion or part of the same volley of fire. The IDF surgically targeted each vehicle on purpose.
And now WCK has shut down its Gaza operation, significantly reducing access to food aid. There's no other way to read it besides that it was the deliberate goal of the IDF. Cutting off food is the weapon.
Since that WCK group has so much global support, it's being explained away as an accident but we know darn well it was a deliberate event. I'm hoping this is one of those tipping points to Biden administration can use to say, we're done. But I don't have much hope because there's also a sale of fighter jets to Israel in progress that the Biden administration greenlighted.
World Central Kitchen
Re: World Central Kitchen
Yes. The WCK attack was clearly intentional. This wasn't an accident. There's evidence that they have been targeting aid groups and targeting civilians who try to get aid for a while now. I know the media keeps reporting on food riots and chaos when people go to get aid. They imply that people are all being trampled to death, but the autopsies after the first "flour riot" found that most died of bullet wounds. The IDF is causing the chaos by firing into crowds waiting for food.
Virtually every hospital and medical center and institute of higher learning in Gaza has been leveled. And yet no evidence of those command centers or weapons caches beneath them have ever been produced.
Aid workers and medical staff have died at disproportionate rates in the occupied territory. More journalists have been killed in the six months of the Gaza siege than died in all 10 years of Vietnam.
The story of the 40 beheaded babies has long ago been debunked. Israel admits it can produce no evidence of even one beheaded baby, much less forty.
And the New York Times piece on October 9th about Hamas using the systematic rape of women to sow terror? Turns out the author Anat Schwartz is an Israeli propagandist and former Israeli air force intelligence agent. The facts of the story could not stand up to fact-check, leading the NYT to cancel plans to expand it into their podcast. NYT also cut ties with Schwartz after she liked a tweet saying that Israel needed to “turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. Violate any norm, on the way to victory. Those in front of us are human animals who do not hesitate to violate minimal rules.”
There are multiple films of IDF soldiers marching Palestinians in front of them (usually children or teens) as literal human shields. Also of them using Gazan homes as firing positions while not letting the families leave. The interview accompanying that last film had the IDF soldier explaining to the reporter that of course they can't let the family leave, because Hamas won't fire if they know civilians are in here. The reporter says, so they are human shields? And the soldier was shocked and genuinely insulted at the idea. Apparently, it's not inhumane when Israel does it, because they know the family will not be harmed because Hamas won't risk killing them. The unspoken implication is that it IS terrible when Hamas hides among the civilians, because they know Israel won't hesitate to kill innocent and combatant alike. The disconnect would have been funny if it hadn't been so horrific.
In summary... yeah, all evidence points to intentional genocide.
And yes, I'm still disappointed in the Biden administration for continuing to allow weapons and aid money flow to Israel. Disappointed that the U.S. vetoes any U.N. measure that calls for ceasefire, instead opting for "encouraging" ceasefire and asking for a temporary end to hostilities. I'm disappointed that we don't back up our empty rhetoric. We are allowing this. We are funding it.
Virtually every hospital and medical center and institute of higher learning in Gaza has been leveled. And yet no evidence of those command centers or weapons caches beneath them have ever been produced.
Aid workers and medical staff have died at disproportionate rates in the occupied territory. More journalists have been killed in the six months of the Gaza siege than died in all 10 years of Vietnam.
The story of the 40 beheaded babies has long ago been debunked. Israel admits it can produce no evidence of even one beheaded baby, much less forty.
And the New York Times piece on October 9th about Hamas using the systematic rape of women to sow terror? Turns out the author Anat Schwartz is an Israeli propagandist and former Israeli air force intelligence agent. The facts of the story could not stand up to fact-check, leading the NYT to cancel plans to expand it into their podcast. NYT also cut ties with Schwartz after she liked a tweet saying that Israel needed to “turn the strip into a slaughterhouse. Violate any norm, on the way to victory. Those in front of us are human animals who do not hesitate to violate minimal rules.”
There are multiple films of IDF soldiers marching Palestinians in front of them (usually children or teens) as literal human shields. Also of them using Gazan homes as firing positions while not letting the families leave. The interview accompanying that last film had the IDF soldier explaining to the reporter that of course they can't let the family leave, because Hamas won't fire if they know civilians are in here. The reporter says, so they are human shields? And the soldier was shocked and genuinely insulted at the idea. Apparently, it's not inhumane when Israel does it, because they know the family will not be harmed because Hamas won't risk killing them. The unspoken implication is that it IS terrible when Hamas hides among the civilians, because they know Israel won't hesitate to kill innocent and combatant alike. The disconnect would have been funny if it hadn't been so horrific.
In summary... yeah, all evidence points to intentional genocide.
And yes, I'm still disappointed in the Biden administration for continuing to allow weapons and aid money flow to Israel. Disappointed that the U.S. vetoes any U.N. measure that calls for ceasefire, instead opting for "encouraging" ceasefire and asking for a temporary end to hostilities. I'm disappointed that we don't back up our empty rhetoric. We are allowing this. We are funding it.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: World Central Kitchen
I've seen this uproar about using the term genocide and how it's grossly inappropriate to label Israel with such a term. I started to parse through it and figure out if it was appropriate, and then I decided that it's not important.
What's going on should and must be condemned. Whether you call it genocide, or violations of international law, or whatever isn't as important to me. It's simply wrong. And it's something that I think the vast majority of countries in the world would agree was wrong if we weren't talking about Israel. For example, if this was a country in Africa doing this to another country in Africa, I'm confident we would see unanimous global condemnation of such acts. Just because it's Israel doesn't make it any different to me.
As a lawyer, I understand that there is significance to the terms we put on things. They have legal and political ramifications that can have real effects. But whether this constitutes an international crime, while the atrocious acts are still happening, seems to lessen the urgency that there is large scale famine, massacre and death happening on a scale that's unacceptable. Does it seem like it's genocide to my untrained ear that doesn't really know all the legal ins and outs of the definition? It does. But more than that, it boggles me that the world can't agree that it's wrong.
I simply don't see how rational, compassionate people can defend the enormous number of deaths we've seen in Gaza-- estimates are over 30,000. But you know what? We're the country that responded to 9/11 by starting a war that, by some estimates, killed 70,000 Afghan and Pakistani civilian lives. It's all so horrible.
What's going on should and must be condemned. Whether you call it genocide, or violations of international law, or whatever isn't as important to me. It's simply wrong. And it's something that I think the vast majority of countries in the world would agree was wrong if we weren't talking about Israel. For example, if this was a country in Africa doing this to another country in Africa, I'm confident we would see unanimous global condemnation of such acts. Just because it's Israel doesn't make it any different to me.
As a lawyer, I understand that there is significance to the terms we put on things. They have legal and political ramifications that can have real effects. But whether this constitutes an international crime, while the atrocious acts are still happening, seems to lessen the urgency that there is large scale famine, massacre and death happening on a scale that's unacceptable. Does it seem like it's genocide to my untrained ear that doesn't really know all the legal ins and outs of the definition? It does. But more than that, it boggles me that the world can't agree that it's wrong.
I simply don't see how rational, compassionate people can defend the enormous number of deaths we've seen in Gaza-- estimates are over 30,000. But you know what? We're the country that responded to 9/11 by starting a war that, by some estimates, killed 70,000 Afghan and Pakistani civilian lives. It's all so horrible.
Re: World Central Kitchen
Kyle, I agree with you, and at the same time I also don't agree with you. I've been back and forth over this and I can't reconcile it.
To me, it's very clear that this is genocide. I have read the case that South Africa brought before the world Court, and they lay it out very plainly. The leaders of the Israeli government refer to Palestinians as vermin, monsters, subhuman animals. They use the language of genocide, and they call for making Israel a purely Jewish state, for wiping all Palestinians off the map, etc. Additionally, their actions since the beginning of this conflict have all been consistent with achieving those stated ends.
But I understand that not everybody is at the same point. I get that for many people they understand that this slaughter is wrong, but they have yet to grapple with what it means for it to be a genocide. And yes, I can see that this gets us bogged down sometimes in deciding what is and isn't the proper label.
And then on the other other hand, it bothers me because I have seen so much equivocating on this issue. I've seen people try to both sides this from the beginning. Even the fact that everyone officially refers to it as the Israel Gaza war implies that there's equal sides here, when they're clearly are not. It kills me that every call for a ceasefire is accompanied by the phrase "and the release of all hostages", as if these are equal horrors--as if the slaughter of 30 something thousand people and the failure to release the remaining 100 to 150 hostages are somehow equivalent actions. As if Palestine maybe deserves some of this, even if maybe 30,000 people is excessive. The U S. has the power to stop this, but our leaders are dragging their feet, saying the right words while failing to take any of the actions that would make the words mean something. Americans are too comfortable with civilian casualties as an unavoidable fact of war. That 70,000 number you quoted for the Afghans was just the number of police and soldiers. We also killed 50,000 civilians on top of that. We're too comfortable with those facts. We're not comfortable with genocide--at least not when you call it that. And part of me thinks it's useful to make the American people uncomfortable here.
If this conflict were being televised, our outrage would have peaked a long time ago.
To me, it's very clear that this is genocide. I have read the case that South Africa brought before the world Court, and they lay it out very plainly. The leaders of the Israeli government refer to Palestinians as vermin, monsters, subhuman animals. They use the language of genocide, and they call for making Israel a purely Jewish state, for wiping all Palestinians off the map, etc. Additionally, their actions since the beginning of this conflict have all been consistent with achieving those stated ends.
But I understand that not everybody is at the same point. I get that for many people they understand that this slaughter is wrong, but they have yet to grapple with what it means for it to be a genocide. And yes, I can see that this gets us bogged down sometimes in deciding what is and isn't the proper label.
And then on the other other hand, it bothers me because I have seen so much equivocating on this issue. I've seen people try to both sides this from the beginning. Even the fact that everyone officially refers to it as the Israel Gaza war implies that there's equal sides here, when they're clearly are not. It kills me that every call for a ceasefire is accompanied by the phrase "and the release of all hostages", as if these are equal horrors--as if the slaughter of 30 something thousand people and the failure to release the remaining 100 to 150 hostages are somehow equivalent actions. As if Palestine maybe deserves some of this, even if maybe 30,000 people is excessive. The U S. has the power to stop this, but our leaders are dragging their feet, saying the right words while failing to take any of the actions that would make the words mean something. Americans are too comfortable with civilian casualties as an unavoidable fact of war. That 70,000 number you quoted for the Afghans was just the number of police and soldiers. We also killed 50,000 civilians on top of that. We're too comfortable with those facts. We're not comfortable with genocide--at least not when you call it that. And part of me thinks it's useful to make the American people uncomfortable here.
If this conflict were being televised, our outrage would have peaked a long time ago.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: World Central Kitchen
Yeah, so I guess what bothers me about that is us spending time and resources arguing this, when we really need to focus on just getting it to stop. I feel like this works in Israel's favor that we'll all engage in a discourse of whether or not this is an atrocity by legal definition. Meanwhile, the atrocities continue. For right now we need to work to get the atrocities to stop, not engage in some gatekeeping exercise of first determining what this legally constitutes. It constitutes the targeting and slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians. That needs to stop. Coming from a legal perspective, this seems like cart-ahead-of-the-horse stuff to my eye. Legal processes take years to play out. And they will. But fuck that for now- how do we get this to stop?Mike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:36 pm Kyle, I agree with you, and at the same time I also don't agree with you. I've been back and forth over this and I can't reconcile it.
To me, it's very clear that this is genocide. I have read the case that South Africa brought before the world Court, and they lay it out very plainly. The leaders of the Israeli government refer to Palestinians as vermin, monsters, subhuman animals. They use the language of genocide, and they call for making Israel a purely Jewish state, for wiping all Palestinians off the map, etc. Additionally, their actions since the beginning of this conflict have all been consistent with achieving those stated ends.
But I understand that not everybody is at the same point. I get that for many people they understand that this slaughter is wrong, but they have yet to grapple with what it means for it to be a genocide. And yes, I can see that this gets us bogged down sometimes in deciding what is and isn't the proper label.
Agreed. The big problem I have is most people in the US are equating Hamas and "anyone from Gaza" as the same thing. There's an underlying racism that seems to be persuasive in the american mindset right now that anyone who is Palestinian, and particularly any Palestinian in Gaza, is also Hamas. That's simply not true and it's shameful that our government (or anyone really) is not working to correct or communicate that.And then on the other other hand, it bothers me because I have seen so much equivocating on this issue. I've seen people try to both sides this from the beginning. Even the fact that everyone officially refers to it as the Israel Gaza war implies that there's equal sides here, when they're clearly are not. It kills me that every call for a ceasefire is accompanied by the phrase "and the release of all hostages", as if these are equal horrors--as if the slaughter of 30 something thousand people and the failure to release the remaining 100 to 150 hostages are somehow equivalent actions. As if Palestine maybe deserves some of this, even if maybe 30,000 people is excessive.
To be clear, the 70,000 number I saw was for Afghan and Pakistani civilians that died as a direct result of the war- not soldiers or armed forces. I can't speak to the veracity of the number, it was the result of google searching. But we're still talking in the same ballpark of inexcusable civilian deaths.The U S. has the power to stop this, but our leaders are dragging their feet, saying the right words while failing to take any of the actions that would make the words mean something. Americans are too comfortable with civilian casualties as an unavoidable fact of war. That 70,000 number you quoted for the Afghans was just the number of police and soldiers. We also killed 50,000 civilians on top of that. We're too comfortable with those facts. We're not comfortable with genocide--at least not when you call it that. And part of me thinks it's useful to make the American people uncomfortable here.
Correct. And it's weirdly gross to me that it's the killing of non-Palestinian aid workers that seem to make people wake up to this. Don't get me wrong- it's horrible what happened with the targeting of the aid workers. But we should have been more outraged long before this at 30,000 civilians, including many children, before that.If this conflict were being televised, our outrage would have peaked a long time ago.
Re: World Central Kitchen
Gotcha. I was looking solely at Afghan deaths.
FWIW, civilian deaths in Iraq were closer to 200,000. We are bad people.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: World Central Kitchen
I just saw a piece on CNN where the anchor was talking to a spokesperson for Israel about this very issue of bombing the aid workers, and she immediately pivoted to "whataboutism" trying to blame the US for providing aid to Palestinians years ago (with Israeli approval) and equating that to support for Hamas. The anchor pointed out that Israel had approved that aid, which went through the government of Qatar, and asked, "Are you blaming the US for the Hamas terrorist attacks?" She fumbled around and then said that she just wanted everyone to know that as much as everyone wants to blame Israel for what's happening in Gaza, we also need to question the US role in this.
There's a very pointed and intentional disinformation campaign happening. This is the new world of disinformation we live in. I'm very troubled by this.
There's a very pointed and intentional disinformation campaign happening. This is the new world of disinformation we live in. I'm very troubled by this.
Re: World Central Kitchen
Apparently 40 Democrats in the House of Representatives have sent a letter to Biden demanding the U.S. immediately stop all weapons transfers to Israel (including ones already authorized and paid for) until a full investigation into the airstrike on the World Central Kitchen workers has been completed.
Good. This is right action. Incomplete, and rather insulting that it is primarily motivated by an attack on non-Palestinians, but still right action. And the document does mention 32,000 Palestinians killed and points out the IPC's official warning that widespread famine is imminent in the next month without immediate cessation of hostilities.
I eagerly anticipate Biden's reaction. It is way past time for the administration to get on board. Hell, even Pelosi is on board, so there must be some good ways for insiders to profit from doing the right thing in this case.
Good. This is right action. Incomplete, and rather insulting that it is primarily motivated by an attack on non-Palestinians, but still right action. And the document does mention 32,000 Palestinians killed and points out the IPC's official warning that widespread famine is imminent in the next month without immediate cessation of hostilities.
I eagerly anticipate Biden's reaction. It is way past time for the administration to get on board. Hell, even Pelosi is on board, so there must be some good ways for insiders to profit from doing the right thing in this case.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: World Central Kitchen
Given that the deprivation of food is being used as a weapon here, and it's pretty clearly documented now that it is, then the genocide label fits and it needs to be used to make clear the severity of the crime. On the other hand, if not calling it by this name helps to achieve some temporary pragmatic solution, fine - characterize it in the way that best prevents using starvation as a military tactic.
I don't understand why the US is not drawing clearer lines here to force humanitarian relief, but the involvement of Iran certainly didn't help. I did and do still think of this as an Israel-Hamas war and it does seem clear there are two sides, both doing bad things. I don't know why that view is incompatible with also thinking Israel is trying to use starvation of this whole population to make Hamas yield, and that starving people deliberately is a genocide. Hamas and Israel are still fighting in the midst of everything else, somehow. I still don't buy anyone's statistics about the numbers or demographics of those killed; I don't trust either side to report the truth about what they are doing. The immediate humanitarian crisis has to be solved, regardless, and I don't see how any of this is going to work out just considering the vast number of children who need help, and possibly are now orphaned, and will be living with the effects of trauma for years to come.
I don't understand why the US is not drawing clearer lines here to force humanitarian relief, but the involvement of Iran certainly didn't help. I did and do still think of this as an Israel-Hamas war and it does seem clear there are two sides, both doing bad things. I don't know why that view is incompatible with also thinking Israel is trying to use starvation of this whole population to make Hamas yield, and that starving people deliberately is a genocide. Hamas and Israel are still fighting in the midst of everything else, somehow. I still don't buy anyone's statistics about the numbers or demographics of those killed; I don't trust either side to report the truth about what they are doing. The immediate humanitarian crisis has to be solved, regardless, and I don't see how any of this is going to work out just considering the vast number of children who need help, and possibly are now orphaned, and will be living with the effects of trauma for years to come.
Re: World Central Kitchen
We're stalling and distracting. And so are other nations. And I don't know exactly why the U.S. is doing this, but I know why Israel is. They are waiting for disease and famine to do their work in Gaza. The number of dead in Gaza seems frozen around 30,000 or 32,000 for a while now but I'm seeing reports that the bombings and attacks have never stopped. The IDF have killed so many journalists and limited so many resources that there can no longer be accurate numbers. Is it currently 35,000 or half a million? We have no way to know.
But the whole Iran situation just distracts even more. And I know Israel is our ally and we are obligated to help and defend them, but not if they are actively committing war crimes (as in Gaza) or if they are the instigators of hostilities (as with Iran). But defend them we did. As did both Saudi Arabia and the UAE. So at least we know that the wealthy nations with stakes in the region are all on the same team.
But yeah... why aren't we taking real action to effect change in Gaza? Biden condemns Israel's actions. He warns of dire consequences. He even called for Netanyahu's resignation. And yet we're still making our regular weapons transfers. We still want to give them extra money. It's as if our words are just a misdirection.
But the whole Iran situation just distracts even more. And I know Israel is our ally and we are obligated to help and defend them, but not if they are actively committing war crimes (as in Gaza) or if they are the instigators of hostilities (as with Iran). But defend them we did. As did both Saudi Arabia and the UAE. So at least we know that the wealthy nations with stakes in the region are all on the same team.
But yeah... why aren't we taking real action to effect change in Gaza? Biden condemns Israel's actions. He warns of dire consequences. He even called for Netanyahu's resignation. And yet we're still making our regular weapons transfers. We still want to give them extra money. It's as if our words are just a misdirection.
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: World Central Kitchen
I'm just at a loss. It's just out in the open and everyone's fine with it. "Yes, we intentionally did a strike on a refugee camp." A strike that apparently killed eight children and six adults. And this is okay with the world because? Because Israel "struck a terror target"? Which we don't really know if they did or not?CNN wrote:The Israel Defense Forces confirmed to CNN that it carried out a strike on Al-Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza on Tuesday — which killed 14 people, including eight children.
The IDF said it is unaware of the number of casualties.
The Israeli military’s response came 48 hours after CNN first reached out for comment, following a CNN report on the strike that showed its deadly aftermath.
"The IDF struck a terror target in Maghazi," the spokesperson said. "And we’re not aware of the BDA (battle damage assessment) that is claimed to have happened." The spokesperson declined to provide additional details about the strike or its target, but said the strike is under review.
CNN provided the Israeli military with coordinates of the strike’s location.
I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but I really feel like the world is turning upside down. While all of this is going on, American police are cracking down on "Pro-Palestinian" protests (which, by the way, I've come to realize that anyone that says, "Stop killing civilians in Gaza" is characterized as being "Pro-Palestinian"-- you're not aloud to just say, "Can't we stop killing people" without being labeled as having taken one side against another). Meanwhile, the valedictorian at USC is not being allowed to give her valedictorian speech because she's "Pro-Palestinian" and letting her speak will be a "safety concern."
This is insane.
Re: World Central Kitchen
That USC thing I recently read about and wowwwwwwwwww is that BS.