I actually "hate" very few people. There's many that I dislike. There's many that I think are terrible, awful individuals. But there aren't many that I hate. For example, that Murdaugh guy that murdered his wife and son and then you find out the family has murdered several other people. Awful, awful man. But do I hate him? No.
Hate to me is something that you feel viscerally. Something that goes beyond my normal rational logic and becomes a toxic feeling of how much I really wish ill on someone. It's not just that I don't like them, but I actually wish ill things on them.
And there's just almost no one in my life that I feel that way about.
HOWEVER, almost doesn't mean none. And I've found that there's a handful of people that I actually hate. That I actually want bad things to happen to. It's a small number- probably less than 5. But I do hate these people. And the weird thing is, these aren't especially evil, terrible, depraved people. They're people that I know in my personal life that, for whatever reason, whenever I'm reminded of them I get this poisonous mindset and think bad thoughts about them.
And I recognize several things: (1) as long as I don't act on these feelings, no harm no foul from a practical standpoint; (2) most of these people I've made a conscious decision to not be around them or have anything to do with them because they make me feel this hatred; and (3) it's not healthy to actually "hate" anyone- it's a destructive (selfish? narcissistic?) mindset that I would like to move past.
But how do you do that? Even if I consciously tell myself, "Oh, he's an idiot and none of this matters. You shouldn't even care about anything about him." But still I do. Is this a pipe dream to think I can work past this and actually stop hating people?
How to stop hating people?
Re: How to stop hating people?
Time and distance? I got nothing to help on this one. I have the same sort of opinion on and experience with hate that you do. It's people who, if I think of them, I can viscerally feel the hate, and if aim not careful, I can find myself spinning elaborate fantasies about things I could do or say that would cause them emotional pain. I can think of 3 people whom I know personally. And they are all people who have actively hurt people I care about and yet still get to about their lives largely unpunished as if they are normal people.
But when I feel myself hating, it feels unhealthy. It's an open wound on my being. I have tried putting myself in the other person's shoes and imagining what circumstances have made them who they are, what immediate events have prompted the behavior I despise. I hope that empathy will help the healing. But ultimately it's just time and distance.
(And one time someone I hated was permanently crippled by COVID and forced to leave their job and I haven't heard from them since. I don't hate that person anymore, and also never took pleasure in their actual misfortune. Still glad that they can't hurt people anymore... just sorry for the circumstances.)
But when I feel myself hating, it feels unhealthy. It's an open wound on my being. I have tried putting myself in the other person's shoes and imagining what circumstances have made them who they are, what immediate events have prompted the behavior I despise. I hope that empathy will help the healing. But ultimately it's just time and distance.
(And one time someone I hated was permanently crippled by COVID and forced to leave their job and I haven't heard from them since. I don't hate that person anymore, and also never took pleasure in their actual misfortune. Still glad that they can't hurt people anymore... just sorry for the circumstances.)
Any time the solution is "banjo rifle", I'm in 100%.
Re: How to stop hating people?
I don't know - I feel like the experience of feeling hate is much more harmful to you than it is to the objects of your hatred, so perhaps it would help to dwell on that thought when the feeling appears. The feeling is unpleasant, right? Why should you suffer it instead of redirecting and having a more pleasant experience of your life? It would be different if you were going to act on the basis of your hatred, as many apparently do. Then you could bring in more serious external considerations about your unwillingness to be that kind of unjust person.
I don't have much experience in this area to help with suggestions - I would say I have contempt for some people but I feel more sorry for them than dislike or hatred. The one time I did hate someone, it was because she had caused a specific wound or damage to my loved ones and to me, and luckily once that wound was healed I could forgive her. She didn't care at all about my forgiveness - she made no changes, had no remorse or even understanding of her bad deeds. However, the forgiveness was for me too - I didn't want to have that burden. The wound never disappears but it does heal, so you can get past it. She was also an old lady, probably no longer living at this point - I thought, what is the point of hating someone so close to their end on earth?
I understand what you mean about not hating random strangers just because they've done evil deeds. We'd be hating all the time if we had to do that. I don't feel anything for such people, just general sadness about the bad things possible in life. The feeling doesn't really get stirred up until someone has wronged my loved ones. I never would have hated the person I did hate if she had only hurt me, but she damaged one of my top humans! If it had been worse, I don't know if I could forgive. I'd like to say yes but I don't know how people do that in the face of the worst wrongs.
I think contempt for people is compatible with the generalized love of them as human beings with dignity. I can have the agape love for people I find contemptible - I wouldn't want to see them suffer! But I want them to fix how dumb or bad they are. Hate is different, as you say, more visceral - it involves wanting bad things to happen to the person you hate, and that's a terrible feeling and condition for you to rest in. Contempt doesn't require much of you, but it's also not a great feeling. It makes you worry you deserve no better, that you have no business holding yourself above others. However, there are times ... you know, right now, I feel it for people doing dumb things at work. I don't feel like it's wrong, because they deliberately did and said the damaging, silly things to earn it. Do better and the contempt would disappear.
I don't have much experience in this area to help with suggestions - I would say I have contempt for some people but I feel more sorry for them than dislike or hatred. The one time I did hate someone, it was because she had caused a specific wound or damage to my loved ones and to me, and luckily once that wound was healed I could forgive her. She didn't care at all about my forgiveness - she made no changes, had no remorse or even understanding of her bad deeds. However, the forgiveness was for me too - I didn't want to have that burden. The wound never disappears but it does heal, so you can get past it. She was also an old lady, probably no longer living at this point - I thought, what is the point of hating someone so close to their end on earth?
I understand what you mean about not hating random strangers just because they've done evil deeds. We'd be hating all the time if we had to do that. I don't feel anything for such people, just general sadness about the bad things possible in life. The feeling doesn't really get stirred up until someone has wronged my loved ones. I never would have hated the person I did hate if she had only hurt me, but she damaged one of my top humans! If it had been worse, I don't know if I could forgive. I'd like to say yes but I don't know how people do that in the face of the worst wrongs.
I think contempt for people is compatible with the generalized love of them as human beings with dignity. I can have the agape love for people I find contemptible - I wouldn't want to see them suffer! But I want them to fix how dumb or bad they are. Hate is different, as you say, more visceral - it involves wanting bad things to happen to the person you hate, and that's a terrible feeling and condition for you to rest in. Contempt doesn't require much of you, but it's also not a great feeling. It makes you worry you deserve no better, that you have no business holding yourself above others. However, there are times ... you know, right now, I feel it for people doing dumb things at work. I don't feel like it's wrong, because they deliberately did and said the damaging, silly things to earn it. Do better and the contempt would disappear.
Re: How to stop hating people?
Now that's an honest man talking some Socrates level stuff! FWIW you impress me....now onward!Kyle wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:15 pm
And I recognize several things: (1) as long as I don't act on these feelings, no harm no foul from a practical standpoint; (2) most of these people I've made a conscious decision to not be around them or have anything to do with them because they make me feel this hatred; and (3) it's not healthy to actually "hate" anyone- it's a destructive (selfish? narcissistic?) mindset that I would like to move past.
But how do you do that? Even if I consciously tell myself, "Oh, he's an idiot and none of this matters. You shouldn't even care about anything about him." But still I do. Is this a pipe dream to think I can work past this and actually stop hating people?
In a word, what you are looking for is forgiveness...the kind you give.
All these feelings you are experiencing are real and they do real things to you mind AND body.
As long as you have these strong feelings you are in a prison of your own construction and the key to the door is forgiveness.
Forgiveness frees you from paying the penalty for another person's guilt, real or imagined.
Even if someone has not apologized for something they did you need to be able to heal and get past the wound, because hate comes from wounds usually. It might not have been directed at you, but thats just blast damage and guess what, it hurts the same.
Many times the person cannot be confronted because it would cause further harm, so be prepared to forgive even without an apology.
Hate doesn't just stop without some form of love uprooting it. Love cannot exist if you harbor hate and forgiveness is the only way for that to happen
There have been a lot of books written on the subject, but I think this is the best way to go about it.
This is a link to a youtube video by a Christian pastor on the subject and probably the most honest answer on the subject:
I queued it to the right spot (approx. 9:07)
https://youtu.be/GAir1ZB9SEk?t=547
"Yay! I'm for the other team."
Re: How to stop hating people?
I like the theory but I don't know if I could carry it out in practice, in the case of very serious harms. I have but one anecdotal experience where forgiveness erased hate. That was good. Yet I see others do this in unimaginable situations and can't believe myself capable of that level of forgiveness. I don't know people manage.
The other thing is, what if the hate doesn't come from harm? It sounds like in Kyle's example, it grew from intense dislike rather than a crisis of being wronged? I'm not sure what to do with those cases, when there's nothing to forgive. It sounds bad to recommend practicing contempt, but contempt rests comfortably with wishing the good for people. You might sincerely wish the person you have contempt for will experience good things, or become worthy of them. You can even think they're a nice or good person, despite feeling scornful about something. Anyway, having that feeling would be a big improvement over hatred that wishes ill to others, and it might be easier to shift to that perspective rather than trying to erase all the negative. Fine, this person acts in a way you consider unworthy and beneath you, but it still would be good if their life went better.
The other thing is, what if the hate doesn't come from harm? It sounds like in Kyle's example, it grew from intense dislike rather than a crisis of being wronged? I'm not sure what to do with those cases, when there's nothing to forgive. It sounds bad to recommend practicing contempt, but contempt rests comfortably with wishing the good for people. You might sincerely wish the person you have contempt for will experience good things, or become worthy of them. You can even think they're a nice or good person, despite feeling scornful about something. Anyway, having that feeling would be a big improvement over hatred that wishes ill to others, and it might be easier to shift to that perspective rather than trying to erase all the negative. Fine, this person acts in a way you consider unworthy and beneath you, but it still would be good if their life went better.
Re: How to stop hating people?
Yeah- so the people I hate never really harmed me, most of them are just dicks, for lack of a more artful term. And most people who are dicks I don't give two flips about, but for some reason there's others that just get under my skin and make me seethe.
Re: How to stop hating people?
Although my problem is different due to lack of seething and hating and such, I am having trouble with two things lately: People at work and people in my general region. My standards for respecting people as competent contributors to life are very low. I don't need you to do much. But I do need some basic integrity, and if you're going to set yourself up as a decision maker on important matters, you have to show some capacity to take in evidence and facts and use them to reason. I don't care if we disagree as long as you're doing those things. You can put in different facts and reasons, weighted differently, and come to a different result, but you cannot be sidestepping that whole process and then braying about your feelings in order to make serious decisions that affect a lot of people's lives. At work, the latter is pretty much all that is happening these days. People who know better, who should be able to do better, are doing their worst at all times. In the surrounding region as a whole, I don't even know. It might be 50-50 but the nutty 50 is severely testing the rest of us with their cruelty and boneheadedness.
Re: How to stop hating people?
OK, scratch everything I said further above - it was all lies: I have found people I probably hate. The people who phone you up and make loud, crass jokes like a donkey, always having something to do with the Little Lady or the Husband or general Sexism, and it turns out they Represent the Police (nope, none that I know) and want your Donations and suddenly the tone becomes very aggressive and intimidating! NO. STOP CALLING.